Brink Q & A

This is a summary of the Stickied brink thread with most questions that were asked and answers under it.

The summary was made by www.brinkish.eu
Will add bbcodes when I have more time.

Topic proposed demanded by sol.

Original thread: http://www.crossfire.nu/?x=forum&mode=item&id=24588

Feel free to continue discussing Brink here!


Q: Will there be a leaked beta?
A: These days it seems inevitable... but I can always dream. Hell, I've got a wife and two beagles to feed! If you like it, buy it! :-)

Q: I have to say that I dont like Wolfenstein, so I thought I jump in to tell you this.
A: No problem, I didn't work on it. Now, if you said you didn't like Syphon Filter 1 or 2 or any of the games I have done, well, then we'd have to step outside and settle this like men :-)

Q: OMG, Syphon Filter was like the best game ever, can you send me the Brink
beta now?

A: We're pre-alpha at the moment, so beta builds are quite a ways away... :-)

Q: Are you going to release any beta?
A: Too early to say.

Q: Syphon Filter was good games back in the days, but you realy should be able to sprint and shoot and the spread shouldnt be crazy high like in alot of recent games.
A: But there should still be spread, right?

Q: Where working with Splash Damage when they made W:ET?
A: That was way before my time. When Splash was working on that, I was working on Sims for PS2, Xbox and Gamecube (I've done a lot of different types of games... my most recent one was Fable 2).

Q: Are there still members in your team left that developed ET:QW?
A: I only joined Splash Damage about a year ago. But the majority of the guys who did etqw are here, and the same is true for the guys who did wolf:et. a small group of guys split off to form endrant, but mostly the gang's all here. but in the last year, the team has more than doubled in size, with a lot of new people with a lot of experience, so things are looking good.

Q: Nice that actually some developers care about us. Is Brink competition able?
A: You bet I care! Now, I'll be honest. We won't always be able to cater to what you guys want, because we are trying to make a game with the broadest appeal possible (because when you're wagering millions of dollars in development, you can't always take all the chances and choices you'd like to). BUT, competitive play is what keeps ET alive today, so to ignore it would be a big mistake, I think. Plus, a lot of guys at Splash come from that kind of hardcore background, including the founders of our company. So making something that can stand the test of time is very important to us for that reason too. Fingers crossed we pull it off! ;-)

Q: It is nice to see that you actually care about us (the community). Why did the Wolfenstein team not talk with us? ;( I hope Brink will be as good as I think. Will there be some kind of "anti-lag" feature as in W:ET? I have got a pretty slow connection and therefore need something like that in order to hit (perfectly).
A: I can't speak for the wolf guys, but I will say that they worked their asses off making the best game they could, and I have nothing but respect for guys who risk literally everything to start up a company and follow their passion. So I wish them the very best. As for lag, all I can say is that i'm a simple caveman and stuff like that is beyond my primitive brain. but i do know that our guys are doing the best netcode they can :-)

Q: Is Brink based on the idtech 4 engine?
A: Yup, heavily modified with tons of new tech and optimizations. Hardly recognizable as idTech 4 anymore, on the lower levels of code :-)

Q: Will you specifically look at the shortcomings of previous games released on the idTech 4 engine, and attempt to avoid similar mistakes in Brink?
A: I think the answer is a big fat yes. in fact, if you go to splashdamage's board, there's a thread there called idtech5 where some of the coders (arnout/rr2d02 and gordon/digibob) talk about specific things they've already fixed, that have been problems for a long time...

Q: Do you get the full idTech4 support by iD software or did you get the 8 hours walktrough and you're on your own kind of support?
A: I know Splash Damage got a lot of support from iD (and Raven, I believe) during the quakewars days, including guys being on site for days/weeks at a time. But they know their way around the engine now and so it's pretty much all our stuff now with Brink.

Q: You said that you will use the idTECH4 engine and that it will be highly optimized. Does that mean that people with 3 year old PCs will be able to play it with acceptable FPS?
A: I wish i could say, but it's too early. i can say that it's definitely my goal that you don't need a really top end uber machine to play competitively...

Q: What are the minimum system requirments?
A: Dunno yet. We've still got a lot of optimizing to do...

Q: I assume you know Punkbuster and it's effects on W:ET (since quite some time a lot of lags). Will there be some ultra performance consuming anti-cheat software? Please consider to choose a good anti-cheat software, which might not make the game laggy, because it is a real fun killer.
A: Yup, we're well aware of the problems, and are taking steps. That's all I can say right now though :-)

Q: How many bullets to kill someone?
A: Not very many, though it varies with guns and upgrades and body types and all that. But people have a tendency to go down fast unless they're playing smart.

Q: Is there a posibility to heal and revive?
A: It wouldn't be a Splash Damage game without it.

Q: Are there med- and ammo packs? (if so, make themem instantly healing please - and include an extra explosive into it - yet again next point)
A: We're doing medic medpacks and ammo packs as you would expect, and our life meter system is like the one in Farcry 2, where there's auto-heal, but only a little ways.

Q: Please make the medic do fast revives like in RTCW and W:ET.. it is so crucial for a team and the gameplay. Imo this is what makes the difference with other fps games.
A: They're fast, in fact, they're kind of unique the way they work, and i'm pretty pleased with it. would love to say more, but we're supposed to not talk about unique abilities until more press is done. but i can say there's more than one way to revive a teammate :-)

Q: Will there be airstrike/support fire, panzerfaust etc... like in f.e. W:ET?
A: we've got some nice high explosive weapons and items, but no airstrikes... doesn't fit the fiction of the world, and it wouldn't work well on a lot of our indoor environments (some levels are 100% indoors).

Q: What kind of explosives and weapons are there going to be? (And if different explosives other than grenades - will you have to select what kind of explosive you take with you, or could you even to a 'bomber'-class on your own, with a pistol and grenades, mines, satchel, etc.)
A: There's a bunch of explosive options, and you can customize what you bring in to make yourself unique. But we haven't announced the full range yet. Soon, hopefully (once we confirm internally that we can get them all in :-)

Q: Will there be smaller deployments? (as in TF2)
A: Yeah, no big deployables the size of buildings :-) You can see what our turrets look like in some of the screenshots out there.

Q: Can we shoot while we sprint?
A: We're still working out the balance of all that stuff right now. Too early to say, but I'm definitely not ruling it out (and that goes for reloading, grenades, etc.), though *if* it goes in, it would likely be a character ability upgrade you have to buy with XP for balancing purposes. Still too far out yet for a final answer on stuff like this though...

Q: Will we be shooting laser beams or bullets in Brink?
A: No lasers. We're not really a science fiction game at all. very much grounded in the real world, in a 'day after tomorrow' kind of way.

Q: Is there recoil on weapons?
A: Just spread, no muzzle climbing, and i don't expect any to go in. we'll see if we need it for extra balance on some weapon or other, but my gut feeling is we won't... :-)

Q: Does brink have weapons with Splash Damage?
A: How could a game from Splash Damage not feature splash damage??? :-)

Q: Will you be able to drop your weapon to another player?
A: Are you asking if players can choose to drop their own weapons on purpose? No plans for that at the moment.

Q: Will you just have one shot left while reloading or nothing - or will you even be able to just shoot again with slight delay using the same clip? or will you at least be able to change the weapon while doing so - with accessing that weapon again having 0 shots in it?
A: No bottomless magazines. Once you're dry, you'd better find a soldier to resupply you, or head to a command post to restock yourself.

Q: Will the Hud somewhat be adjustable as in ET or will there only be a default HUD arrangement?
A: I hope to make the hud adjustable, but first we've got to get a GUI coder! Know anyone? We're hiring! :-)

Q: What kind of crosshair will the game have?
A: Right now we've got a very simple translucent circle (which shrinks/grows) and a small dot in the center of it.

Q: Will it be possible to change the crosshair to only a dot?
A: Definitely possible. But first we've got to get a GUI coder and artist on board.

Q: How will the headshots be and how meny do you need to make for a kill?
A: We're not an insta-kill game like counterstrike or rainbow six. it's usually a few bullets to the cranium at least before anyone will go down, and there's of course extra complexity based on what weapon you have, what body type the other guys is, etc. Everyone's not a big meat bag that takes forever to put down. I think we're at a good compromise between the two extremes.

Q: Will the main gunplay be like ET (hitscan tracking weapons) or will there be more of a mix of guntypes, like point and click shotguns or rifles?
A: As for the guns, there's a mix of gun types, but i'll admit my ignorance and say i'm not sure what you mean by hitscan. do you mean moddeling the actual existence of bullets? we're not doing that. there's a wide variety of guns though, more than in either ET game.

Q: Hitscan means if you aim at the target it hits immediatly. Rocketslaunchers, riflenades, nades are the opposite of hitscan, as they have an inbuilt 'delay' while the projectile travels along its path.
A: Ahha! so I guessed correctly! Yup, the majority of the weapons fire that way (instant impact). there are a couple of grenade launchers though (one is shown as part of the demo we've been showing).

Q: Is there any iron sight in Brink?
A: Yes. In the same way that in W:ET you would crouch to slow yourself down and get better aim, in Brink, you ironsight to slow yourself down and get better aim. Same basic mechanics.

Q: Don't put iron-sights in it and also don't make shoot-while-running an upgrade but a permanent feature. Believe us ET players! (Although Brink won't be ET, we know at least what makes a game outstanding. And I bet you don't want to create yet another CS / CoD / whatever clone.)
A: The whole "holding a button to slow down and eliminate spread via ironsighting is no different, functionally than holding a button to slow down and eleminate spread via crouching"? what's the diff, functionally?

Q: In my eyes ironsight could be a nice extra, but just an extra! to shoot more accurate from longer distances, just like a sniper but then without zoom but let's say a fov around 65-70.
A: I think that's a fair way to look at it, that's kind of how it's playing right now in our internal playtests :-)

Q: Players don't want to play a game that is for everyone, i.e. with parts they like and parts they don't like. They want to feel that you intended exactly THIS type of gameplay and that every other aspect of the game design had been decided in favor of your vision. Players do not want options that influence the whole gameplay. They want options that support ONE style of game.
A: I'm primarily trying to make a game that can appeal to the broadest base possible, and by and large, the wider audience has spoken and likes ironsighting. Arguably, they only like it because it's what they're used to, but it doesn't change the fact that they do like it and it adds to the experience for them (one of the biggest thing it adds to the 'feel' of a game is enhancing the sense of "really firing a gun", which is not to be discounted).

Q: Just to make it clear, I don't expect you to create ET2. I just want to have a fast-paced and smooth game experience. Free running as alternative to trickjumping? Damn, I'm fine with that as long as you implement it in the right way!
A: It seems perfectly reasonable to me to say that another one of those user-controlled 'hardcore match' settings could easily be 'disallow ironsights', along with user control over spread modifiers. it's options like that which make me (perhaps foolishly) believe we can make a game that crosses over between pub and pro play... :-)

Q: It would be the best if you would just include options for servers to tweak such settings, afterall it's all just variable-based and people here in ET are used to tweaking everything possible using configs etc. Leaving the game pub-friendly in default config wouldn't be a problem then, and I don't think there's much more options since obviously competetive gaming differs significantly from public use.
A: Yup, that's exactly the plan (the exposing of settings to end users that allow them to make the game more conducive to 'hardcore' play).

Q: Will freerunning be limited in any way (like by having something like stamina becoming lower and lower)?
A: Freerunning is predominately limited by the type of body you choose (small/medium/big).

Q: Is Wallrunning possible - like in Mirrors Edge?
A: We don't do as wide a range of parkour stuff as mirror's edge (they're a parkour game with a little bit of shooter. we're the opposite). But there's defintiely more than you're used to seeing in just about any other FPS.

Q: If a player reaches a certain height too high to climb but still too low to jump over an obstacle, will the player start climbing over a considerably small object, lets say 1m of height) or is there a tollerance putting the player up (just as in id3)?
A: We're still working out final run speeds/climb heights/etc.

Q: Logically it only really makes sense to go for the ironsight, because otherwise (in other games previously anyway) spread seems to be too much of an issue, and you'll find yourself dead if you dont. Going to try and address this in Brink?
A: On the spread issue. You can be very competitive without ironsights because we're generally going going for huge distances. i'm hoping when i get back into he office in a few weeks to maybe post some screenshots of sample spreads on various guns...

Q: I would really like for you to explain why you think ironsight makes a game more fun to play. What does that add to a game that makes the gameplay (read enjoyment of a game) go up.
A: I like ironsights particularity because they create a gameplay choice for players to make on a moment by moment basis: fire from the hip, which gives you more freedom of movement at the expense of accuracy. Fire down the sights and sacrifice movement for more accuracy. This creates a level of depth to the core gameplay by giving the player an interesting choice to make (which over times becomes instinctual choice) and allows them to have another tactic to master (when is it best to sacrifice one for the other). The reason all this is good is equally valid, to crouching in W:ET.

Q: You can't really compare ironsight with crouching that much in my opinion. Crouching does slow your movement down just as ironsight does, but the difference in spread between crouching and hipshooting in ET is not that high. Meanwhile in pretty much any game that has ironsight, the spread when shooting without it is immense. However, the most important factor is the delay that ironsight gives and the fact that it blocks your view massively.
A: Really? Seems pretty huge to me. One thing I can say on this topic is that there are several guys in the office who don't like ironsighting either, and they still do pretty well in our internal playtests, moving around much quicker and firing from the hip. So far the balance hasn't seemed that far off. You've got - firing from the hip, maximum movement, base accuracy. - firing from crouch, limited movement, better accuracy, smaller target to hit. - firing from crouch, limited moveemtn, pixel perfect accuracy, easiest target to hit. That feels like a good, balanced tradeoff for players which gives a nice set of choices to make on the fly.

Q: In fast paced games like RTCW/ET there is NO need for it, if it's there it forces players to use it and slows down the game. Because usually with ironsights there are huge accuracy penalty for not using it.
A: Like I said earlier, there are guys in the office who hate iron sighting with a passion, and they do fine firing from the hip in our playtests. You've to remember, most of our engagement distances in the game are fairly close (as you'll see if we ever release video :-)

Q: By adding things such as ironsights and tool tips are you really making it easy for everyone? or just catering for utter lazy fag retards who thing they know how to play a game? (Because the biggest drive for me playing a game is been good. Example: Quake 3 Rocket to rail shots, if i ever pull one of smoothly i will actually cream my pants. and Street Fighter 4 again if i ever was actually good enough to play at something like Evo i would cream my pants as soon as it says 'Fight!'. Yet when it comes to COD does it seem to be possible to be 'Skilled' a the game?)
A: "utter lazy fag retards" as you put it want to have fun too, and their money is just as good as yours :-) doesn't mean though, i hope, that we can't find a middle ground that works well for pubbers and pros.

Q: Is there going to be a zoom_sensitivity feature like in counterstrike for when you scope in(or ironsight in brink) that your sensitivity will be raised to make low sensitivity play possible?
A: Yeah we do have different sensitivity for when you're ironsighted. hadn't though about exposing it to players to tweak, but yeah, seems like that would be a good idea.

Q: Spread is arguably a random factor that in my opinion has too much of a negative impact on a players actual eye-hand coordination skills.
A: Yeah, spread is a powerful tool though to again give players more depth to their experience, since of course, spread is basically eliminated if you burst fire instead of spam bullets. so again, another skill (or tactic, really) for players to master.

Q: I think u really can and should find a good balance between noob friendliness and catering to the hardcore gamers.
A: We are trying! Time will tell if we pull it off :-)

Q: Will BRINK have a quake-live style business model to support competitive play: i.e. SD provides servers and clans/players can rent server time for games?
A: Good question about server rental and all that. way too early to say, unfortunately. still working this kind of stuff out right now :-)

Q: Will there be support for SDKs/Modding in the game?
A: We definitely plan to support users expanding the game, post release. Hopefully a full SDK (also post release) on PC..

Q: Can we expect similiar gameplay to ET and RTCW. Fast objective gameplay. Requires more tactics instead of aim.
A: Yes, but i'll have to say it now, Brink will not be as fast as W:ET (see my earlier comment about trying to make a game with as broad an appeal as possible). But faster than the norm, I'd say. And very deep :-)

Q: Will there be ET/RTCW spawntimers & selfkilling?
A: All the normal rules and tactics you've come to expect from ET will be in Brink

Q: Any vehicles in Brink?
A: Just automated ones you escort

Q: How big a part will the running system be in the MP. Can we compare it to mirror's edge?
A: Yes.

[/b]Q: Will there be a class system?
A: Yes, 4 classes - soldier, medic, engineer, operative.

Q: Does the light weighted class have more efficient close combat attacks than other classes? (e.g. like in the game "Guns")
A: Everyone has the same type of melee attacks, though the small guy is better at them because he's faster.

Q: Will the heavy class not only have stronger but also more weapons than other classes available at the same time?
A: Heavy guy gets more gunz available to him than anyone else.

Q: Will the heavy classes be better armored or just have more HP?
A: The differences in body types for healing and toughness and speed are all pretty much in line with what you'd expect, though there is at least one surprise in there as well which we haven't announced yet :-) Weapons aren't limited by class, but by body type. So an engineer, for example, can use any weapon he wants, provided he's strong enough to carry it.

Q: What teamsize are the maps scaled for (5v5, 8V8, 12v12)?
A: 8v8

Q: If you propose 8v8 players I assume the maps are far bigger than in W:ET or? Doesn't that alone slow down the game a lot?
A: Hmm, i've never gotten out a tape measure, but my gut feeling is that the average map is maybe 300m by 300m? (don't quote me on that! i really should fire up the level editor and check, but i'm at home). Suffice to say, you don't spend very much time far away from the enemy. if we ever release video of our demo we've been showing around, you'll get the idea.

Q: You really need to implement some way to accelerate (other than sprinting, with no limit contrary to etqw) properly in the game (especially on 8v8 maps, which I guess will be quite large and opened).
A: The distance to enemies is a lot shorter, we keep spawn points usually fairly close by in most level. out of curiosity, why do you feel the need to have more 'accelerated forward speed'... is it just to help ensure you get the action faster, in a skill based way? that's definitely in with the skill required to be a good parkour guy, plus the extra balancing factor of choosing which body type you're going to be..

Q: Please integrate the Wolfmap "Supply". Most awesome map ever!
A: You mean supplydepot? actually, we're taking a lot of inspiration from older popular W:ET maps, and in fact that we've got one map in Brink that follows the same basic flow of that one (at least, it does at the moment... things are still be playtested and balanced, and who knows how they might change as time goes on). but the kind of play you see there is definitely the type of play you get in Brink :-)

Q: Can you record demos i Brink?
A: We definitely have plans for demos, but are working out the specifics now.

Q: Will there be stopwatch game mode like in W:ET?
A: There'll totally be stopwatch. to not do that would be sacrilege! :-)

Q: What are the objectives like, with the BRINK movement, docrun objective could be very cool.
A: objectives very similar to what you're used to (vehicle escorts, demolition, doc runs, etc.) plus a couple of new types as well (for the first time, medics can actually get in on core objectives, instead of always being support).

Q: Will there be an online matchmaking services (for co-op, or even clanwars)?
A: Yes.

Q: Is there an buddylist like quakelive where you can keep track of your mates?
A: Yes.

Q: Will there be an ingame voicechat?
A: In game voice chat between friends in a 'standard' match, and fully open to all in a 'hardcore match' (or it can be set up how people like, anyway).

Q: Will BRINK support Linux or Mac OS?
A: Yes to Linux server support. not sure about Mac (will have to ask at work).

Q: So you've got Linux server support. But what about Linux client support?
A: Sorry, can't say for sure yet. still a lot of stuff to be worked out (i hate the cop out answer, but better than guessing or "hoping for the best" and turning out to be wrong...)

Q: Can you prone in Brink?
A: Sorry, actually our intention is to not have prone, to keep things moving more. We do have leaning though..

Q: With the lean can people see you doing the lean?
A: Yup, the leaner kind of half steps out of cover. kind of like what we did for deathmatch in syphon filter 2.

Q: Hmm just came to my mind, do you think you'll be able to include upside down leaning?
A: Something like that would be cool, though I think it'd have to wait for a sequel. plus, it seems more like it would be a 3rd person game mechanic.

Q: Will there be also strafejumps as in W:ET and RTCW?
A: There aren't strafejumps, per se, in the game (really, a lot of the levels wouldn't support it very well anyway, but there are movement elements that are very much skill based. you might have heard about the SMART button and how it automates climbing and whatnot, but it's important to realize you can do the jumps yourself manually, and with correct timing you'll get more effecient movement over terrain than players get who are relying on the smart button.

Q: That SMART button feature makes free running possible or am I wrong?
A: You can do the freerunning automatically with the smart button held, or you can do it quicker and more effeciently (changing a mantle into a vault, for example) if you use the jump/crouch/sprint buttons manually yourself in various combinations. Of course, you also need to be the right body type. big guy is slow and does almost none. little guy is fast and can do the more elaborate stuff (jumping off walls). medium guys is the standard in the middle type. I expect strafe runners will prefer to be little/acrobatic guys.

Q: Why does SD not come up with new and unique things anymore like you did with rtcw/et? maybe the games you make would be played competitively for more than one year then. or arent you passionately enough for your games and just aim for quick sells because of famous names?
A: Not sure what you mean. I can say that we love the kind of objective based competitive gameplay that was really invented with ET, and almost no one else is doing it, and we're constantly finding new ways to tweak and improve it. until it's perfect, i doubt you'd see us moving on to something completely different. we just love this kind of game too much! :-)

Q: What I mean is; why dont you go on with the RtCW/W:ET-gameplay and movement stuff. RtCW was very successful with its 1on1 game gameplay and movement. why dont you instead of copying cod games copy this style again? Fast obj based gameplay IS NOT possible with ironsight and all this stuff.
A: While that kind of gameplay is fantastic, it's genuinely too hard for the vast majority of players out there these days. You guys are literally too good! :-) If we make a game that caters to your strengths as players, we create a game that literally 90% of our potential audience wouldn't be able to play well, and as a result we'd screw ourselves and go out of business. That said, I do still think Brink is faster than what has kind of become standard in the last few years, especially when you consider our freedom of movement stuff, and our "small body type" which lets you move faster. And I know our gameplay is the most tactically deep out there, so we've got that gong for us too. Hopefully there's be some official video out soon so you can judge for yourself how we're shaping up.

Q: You seem to underrate the players then. its not like my parents or whoever would play the game, only people who play fps games will buy your game anyway and they dont need shit loads of tooltips and things like iron sight. look at the fps games that were made in the past. they were popular because they were so simply to play and i think that there is the problem of the games produced nowadays. you seem to think that making a game slower, adding tooltips and using iron sight make games easier to play but its exactly the opposite.
A: I think you underrate yourself. To play at the level that you play at, it's really beyond most players today. The audience has really expanded a lot in the last 10 years, and as well, Brink is trying to expand it even more by getting players who never try online to try us. So to make it a game where success is measured in hyper precision pinpoint actions and blisteringly fast gameplay would keep us too niche. A game could be successful catering to that audience, but it would have to be made for a fraction of the money a normal AAA blockbuster is made these days. Also, it wouldn't hurt it if was given away for free, like W:ET :-) But we'll try to expose as many variables to players so they can make their own competetive mods without requiring a degree in computer science! And, we've got the 'fast' body type for players who want to move fast. I don't think it would be crazy to expect that players would have the ability to set up servers where everyone is forced to be the small acrobatic body type, so everyone is moving around at full speed, scrambling up walls, for example.

Q: Well, but if the ironsight drawgun isnt forced it will be OK for me.
A: Is anti-ironsighting really just anti "gun covering the bottom 1/3rd of the screen"? cause if so, that sounds like a pretty simple things for player's to adjust when setting up their own pro-matches.

Q: Will ironsight change weapon stats other than accuracy? (asking because of fallout 3 felt like it did, actually I really like the idea one posted up, using ironsight for heavy class and for light class something like crouching or just increased accuracy since they move quite a lot and do less damage I assume).
A: Ironsights remove all spread, naturally, and bring the FOV in narrower to make targets bigger. Also, there's some other stuff we're wanting to do with ironsights that I think is kind of cool and unique, but i know you guys won't care about it (plus it's yet to make it in, so i can't guarantee it'll be there anyway).

Q: Well so "Brink" tries to appeal to majority of players, we aint the majority as you said.
A: I see no reason not to give you guys as much freedom and flexibility right out of the box to set up matches that scratch your competitive itches. In fact, it's in our best interest, because i want people playing brink for years, not months, and pros are the guys (and girls, I suppose :-) who can do that, if we get it right. Bear in mind, if you ever see me talking about brink in interviews, they're generally to mainstream magazines and websites, so i do tend to focus on the stuff that's in the game to appeal to a wider audience. it doesn't mean we're ignoring the pro scene.

Q: Do you emphasize long or short distance fighting?
A: There's a lot of variety amongst our levels, but our engagement distances are generally short to mid range.

Q: Don't put red arrows above your opponents' heads. And don't you even dare to think of health bars!
A: Yeah, no red arrows. Myself, I am a fan of letting someone see how close to death the enemy is when you mouse over him, but that's totally something that you can turn off when setting up hardcore matches.

Q: How good is the visibility? fog, smoke, blur/dof fx?
A: We're not doing a lot of foggy night levels or anything, so generally the atmosphere is pretty clear.

Q: Do you keep the contrast between playermodels and their background in mind when you decide the coloring of the levels?
A: Ensuring the player's pop is very important. We've experimented with a few different ways to ensure they stand out... stuff like rim lighting and the like. still working on a final solution, but this is important to us to get right.

Q: If I've understood things right, the shooting system is the same as in et + ironsights?
A: I'd say the movement stuff we have includes interesting way to 'mix it up' and keep the guy shooting at you on his toes. probably the most powerful tool along these lines is the ability to slide and time you want. another thing that's important to us too is to let players shoot as much as possible. we're trying to minimize the game actions that would prevent you from firing (so for instance, you can keep firing as you pull your self up a ledge, though this takes real skill to get good at it).

Q: I think you mentioned there are going to be some rpg elements in Brink. Will this include a monthly subscription similar to likes of WoW and co or will we just pay a one time fee like with more traditional FPS?
A: No extra fees. Just like a normal shooter :-)

Q: How will the casual gamer/noobie compete with dedicated players who have levelled their character or is there some sort of skill/xp matching setup in place? (see battlefield heroes for an example how NOT to do it).
A: I think Killzone 2 is a fairly good example of how to keep different level players in like leveled games. However, we also want to let players jump into higher level games, if they feel they're up for it.

Q: How many guys can play in co-op? And is it just the SP with more players?
A: Up to 8 guys can co-op, because they're all playing in a normal objective-based competetion 8v8 match against 100% bots.

Q: Will all platforms combine for the single/muliplayer co-op elements? I.e can John Smith on his PS3 play with Sally Hughes on her PC?
A: 'Fraid not :-(

Q: No offence here, but Brink seems like a fantasy - just purely because we haven't seen anything yet. I've seen some nice artistic pictures, big guns and explosions but this doesn't mean anything in the long run - what sort of time frame will we get some actual game play videos?
A: If we don't get some actual video out online within the next month, i'm gonna go crazy myself. I really want to hear what people think when they actually see it. fortunately, everyone who's seen the demo first hand has loved it. My hope is that soon a video of our full demo shown at E3, Quakecon, GamesCon, and PAX will be released so that EVERYONE can see it.

Q: How is it being in charge of Brink when you're not really a FPS player? Did you play W:ET? Did you play Q3?
A: Thank is an excellent question, actually. I do play shooter a lot, love 'em in fact. You can check my xbox live stats if you like :-) I used to play online shooters quite a bit years ago, back when I was working on the first and second Syphon Filter games. Mostly the original counter strike, and some Q3. Also SWAT3 and Rainbow Six. I did play some W:ET, but honestly, I wasn't good enough to compete, so I didn't stick with it. And I got out of the habit as I moved over to primarily console play (couldn't afford to keep upgrading my PC!) The reason I was hired by Splash, actually, is because of my experience making single player games, and console games. They had almost no in-house knowledge about that, so I was brought on to flesh that part out, since of course, the company is mostly comprised of old school PC clan players (Locki, Arnout, etc). But since I've been here, I've really been getting back into online play (I need to, or else I wouldn't be able to survive in our twice weekly internal playtests, since everyone else here is VERY good!).

Q: ..so by the time we see it, we will not have any influence on it? IE if something is very wrong with what people would normally want in an MP its basically too late to change?
A: Basically, right now, we've got a couple more milestones of just getting core functionality in the game (finishing all the class abilities primarily). after that, it's a few months of trying to polish everything as best we can, during which time user feedback will be awesome to have and can make a big impact. and the finally we start going through submission process (which can often take a few months on console) during which time we can still be tweaking and tuning gameplay for a day one patch. during this time, user feedback will still be very valuable, and as long as i'm in charge, there'll still be a 2 way line of communication :-)

Q: Will there be a Brink Demo?
A: Dunno if there's going to be a demo yet. They're great, but they also take a TON of resources to make, which cuts into the time we have to polish the game :-(

Q: If I were you I'd just make a training course - if it fits somehow into the beginning of the game - as some sort of tutorial - just because you were talking of also trying to reach players which so far havn't been players afterall - and release that as a demo (not much work to make a cap after it, is it?!)
A: Unfortunately, that's a great way to get a lot of players to never buy the game, because it's not an exciting, sexy demo. plus, even doing something like that is a lot of work, because there's this entire approval process you have to go through with the console manufacturers that can take weeks (and in some cases even months) of back and forth dev time.

Q: The real reason why you are making it slow is so that it can be played on consoles, like the COD series. COD-games are very succesful so obviuosly many players like slower games, but those people play COD and wont be so intersted in this new game Brink. So instead of reaching out to new playerbase (like ET:QW or Wolfenstein) you would better just focus on the existing playerbase and make a game that suits their needs: a fast paced tactical team game.
A: It's a fair point, but these days, there's a lot more console players buying games than there are PC. It's harder to make a living catering solely to PC gamers than it ever has been. And when you're making a game that costs millions of dollars to develop, you have to ensure your best chance at making all that money back. That said. We're definitely trying to make a game that works well for more top end competitive play as well. It's why I'm here talking to you guys, after all :-)

Q: I understand that you have to make a console version to make profit from the game, but I don't understand why it has to be the exact same game? Take a look at how NERVE software made RTCW for the PC, and RTCW: Tides of war for the original XBOX. 2 slightly differant games, each optimized for PC or Console with very little effort to make it 'console friendly' (talking about multiplayer only).
A: That's a fair point. The tricky part is, I'm sure you'll agree, that a lot of games don't even get one decent control setup going well. It's tough to fine tune and balance all this stuff, and for Splash (which is still a very small team by most modern development standards) to fully polish and nail two different control/movement schemes might be a recipe for disaster. We've already got the challenge of making 3 different body types (big&slow, normal, and fast&light) all work well and feel great. Which is why we want to expose as much as possible to players so you can set your own rules on the PC.

Q: It's really in the little things. I completely understand that todays focus is on consoles, but that doesn't change the fact that with a small amount of effort things like menus could be different on the PC. Menus are often based on a dumbed down controller. Just let us PC gamer's utilize our tools (keyboard with LOADS! of keys that we want to bind) and a mouse instead of working menus with a keyboard. One of the complaints with Wolfenstein was that alot of things were activated with the same damn key, which makes it easy for console gamers but really annoying on the PC when we accidently do something that we didn't want to do.
A: Good points about taking advantage of a given platform's abilities. And that exact example you're talking about it one we're taking into account. On console, your reload button doubles at interact (tap vs. hold), but on console, we make interact and reload completely different keys... :-)

Q: I'm rather concerned as to whether Brink will be developed for each platform individually, or are you just going to port it from consoles, like Raven did with Wolfenstein SP?
A: We're putting a ton of time into ensuring that all 3 platforms work "like they should".

Q: One thing that's always puzzled me is why developers seem to exclude competitive features that the mod makers seem to be able to add within the first few weeks. Mods such as ETPro, CPMA and Q4Max have introduced features we now consider standard - why have so few new releases attained these dizzy heights and does your team aspire to?
A: Well sometimes, that stuff is put in there by the original developer, but disabled either because of some design decision, or because leaving them in the game opens up a lot of potential bugs which would require too much time to fix. when you turn stuff like that one post release, by end users, it doesn't have to go through a bug submission process :-)

Q: What possible bugs could build in feature in engine give to you? You are just doing it wrong then. If a moder who's not been involved in making a game, can make these features in less than 2 weeks? Then, pardon me, what the fuck are developers doing?
A: All I can say is it's easier to edit than to write, easier to build on something once the foundation is already there. Beyond that, I can't say, because I'm not a programmer. Sorry if I've let you down with my answers. There's only so much I can do, without going back to college for 5 years! :-)

Q: As long as you believe your basic concept with Brink is sound, stick to it. ET:QW failed because the concept wasn't sound, you tried to mix ET with BF2 hoping to appeal to both sets of players, and ended up appealing to neither. Don't try to make a game for a specific player base, make a game that you think has a workable concept and develop it along those lines, because if you target a game at a specific player base, and it turns out not to be an exact blow by blow carbon copy of their favourite game, they'll hate you for it.
A: I've gone into some detail about what we're trying to do to make the game we think has the broadest appeal, but still has a lot of options that can be turned on/off or adjusted to make it more amenable to competitive play. But if you're playing like that, you've effectively "turned on the Brinkpro" mode. By default, when casual players play Brink, they'll just choose the mission they want to play, and we'll take care to put them into a match that has a standard set of rules and setting that cater to making the game as friendly and easy to pick up and play as possible. They'll be put into matches that are matched to their skill level (both their personal ability, and their character's in-game abilities), and about the only special stuff we'll do is ensure friends can play together no matter what. But the rules will always be the same, and i expect they'll be rules that a crossfire poster wouldn't like (like having bots automatically fill empty team slots, for instance). I expect no one on this board who plays Brink will take that choice. They'll all instead choose the "hardcore" (or whatever we call it) server mode, which will take them to something more like what they're used to where they've got a list of all the "hardcore" matches running, and they can sort and filter by what's important to them, regarding who matches are set up. Or they can set up their own with their own rules. I expect from that, standards will start to immerge that everyone prefers and considers "official". Hopefully we can figure out what those standards are before we ship (with the help of feedback from communities like this), so they can be kind of "built in". But it'll be about giving you guys flexibility. We'll see how it goes. I have no doubt that there will be plenty who are unhappy (you can't please all the people all of the time), but no one will ever be able to say I wasn't 100% honest with them up front :-)

Q: I think for Brink the difference between regular pub and hardcore pub might become the difference between playing SP and MP, making that difference is something ET:QW perhaps accidentally did as well (having ranked pubs and unranked private servers), maybe you guys could try to get the casual gamer to play the hardcore side as well so you don't divide the communities too much. Perhaps offer some achievements and unlocks which can only be gained in the hardcore mode. It doesn't have to be much, as long as it makes the player want to try the different side of the game.
A: I agree, and I do have a big concern that taking this approach will split the community, which is a real shame. but there doesn't seem to be any way around it. however, hopefully both communities will be big and rich enough to thrive on their own. Though just calling your community and matches the "hardcore" ones, or the "pro" ones (or whatever we'll call them), is going to entice curious casuals over, because who doesn't want to be l33t? :-)

Q: You should include a 'professional gamers'-config in the game. I'm talking about a local config here, not a serverside config. You guys at splash damage should know what the best settings are for most fps, best visibility and responsiveness. So it will be a lot easier for competitive players, from other games, to switch to Brink. But also when this config is easily available for starting or casual players, they dont have an extra handicap because of all the bloodsplatter, bobroll, low fps, s_mixahead 0.2, prerenderlimit 2, 60 hz refreshrates, pitch black parts of the map, crosshairpulse, drawgun 1, etc etc.
A: Not a bad idea. will put it on the wish list (no promises though :-) My worry is for something like this though that it might not be "quite right" in the eyes of a lot of gamers, and I'd hate for something that was put in to make the game more friendly became something for players to bicker over...

Q: Are you guys doing BRINK alone with SP? Or any other developer company help?
A: All Brink dev is being done by us. No farming out parts to other developers.

Q: I read that you have plans for Brink to become a Trilogy so I presume you guys will be using the Id Tech 5 engine for Brink 2?
A: Could be, if there's a Brink 2. That quote, though, got taken way out of context. All I meant was that if Brink is a big hit, we've got a lot of ideas for stuff we'd like to do in a sequel. What we haven't done is some big elaborate multi-part trilogy plan where every game ends with a cliffhanger or something like that. We're just trying to make Brink the best it can be. If it sells well, then we'll talk about sequels, and really start planning them... :-)

Q: Will this be a simultaneous release for all platforms or is my question slightly premature at this stage of development.
A: We're shooting for all 3 simultaneously.

Q: Obviously the three platforms will not be able to co-interact between themselves but has the option of allowing two platforms cross referencing each other while online or is that inviting trouble on a multiple level.
A: Well, I'm hopeful about stats on the game's community website being cross referential (so everyone can clearly see that PC players get more kills than console players, or PS3 players give more revives than 360, or whatever), but we'll see...

Q: If you say that you're more responsible for SP parts of that (blablabla) - how long will it take to fully finish SP part (playing alone or together with someone)?
A: Actually, there isn't a separate single player mode for the game. one of the new things we're trying to do is find ways to bring a sort of narrative experience that you normally get in a single player game, into multiplayer gameplay. There's lots of interviews about this online. To answer your question though, if players decide to play the game completely offline (like a singleplayer game), it is probably going to be something like 8-10 hours to experience the two "storyline campaigns".

Q: Will there be some easter eggs also in the BRINK from past SD games, like there are tapirs (which is kind of SD symbol already I guess) and few pictures representig something from W:ET in ET:QW? Or it will have no such small, but fun things to explore while playing?
A: There must always be tapirs!

Q: This might sound weird but if someone wants to +walk their speed should be scaled down in a curve and not just dropped immediately (or better just have 1 constant movement speed whilst standing/running and a slower one crouched).
A: Good suggestions about the walk speed. and i agree that giving players as much flexibility to customize the overall experience is worth pursuing. we'll see how much of it makes it in. i'd hate for you guys to have to wait 6 months for the pro-mod to get completely sorted out, for example...

Q: So Brink will be - if compared to SP games - like choosing your profile?! (something like in Overlord 2 for example?)
A: I'd say the best example would be an MMO (without the monthly charges!)... you've got one login, and X characters withing that login.

Q: Can you say that there is an equality in developer-spent-time between the multiplayer and the sigleplayer?
A: We're spending I'd say 85% of our dev muscle on multiplayer. Solo play really just our multiplayer game, with good bots, and a storyline that threads the whole thing together (though those elements can be present in online play as well).

Q: If you can jump into the campain of others; what do you tell the people having some of 'us hardcore' players in their campaign as defenders? or is skillmatching also enabled for the campaign?
A: Definitely. Also, if you've switched over to playing in a hardcore match, you've basically made the decision to ignore all the campaign storyline stuff, I think... :-)

Q: Well by restricting body type ingame you somewhat neglect your feature at the very beginning again imo. But by allowing to switch body type aswell as classes and weapons (I'd prefer a limbo in competitive matches over a cp - tried to point it out at the SD board). So far I think the heavy body type is mostly good for tanking and damage dealing, right? I think it's less capable of doing objectives since it's somewhat hindered in being as flexible as the light body type because of it's speed. But if the map would enter a state where your team doesn't need a soldier and longs for health support you should be able to switch to a fast medic imo or: you need another engineer but don't want to sacrifice a medic for this.
A: There are two interesting things about the way the system works though that I wish I could tell you about, but can't yet, that are really applicable to your observations. Well, one I can say, since it did get mentioned in an interview somewhere: bigger guys have more "power" (or "energy", or "mana" or whatever you want to call it). This means that while it takes them a bit longer to get to the action, once they're there, they're the ones who can hand out the most heals, or do the most buffs, or share the most ammo. Fast guys can get there quicker, but they've got a lot less power to use for abilities. So that's an extra wrinkle. The other thing, which i can't talk about, is a very huge and important feature. About all I can say on it right now is this: surfing. When you guys find out more in the coming months, I think you'll be quite surprised how it can add a new tactical level to different body types and how they get around :-)

Q: Will there be a possibility to just switch guns for next spawn (for competition at least) or next spawn have another char?
A: You can switch guns during a match at a command post, same way you can swtich classes. about switching to different characters, first of all, we're not sure we can technically do it (stuff about character customization compositiing), so until that's resolved, can't say if we'll allow it or not mid match.

Q: Will XP be permanent or just for a single game session?
A: Character advancement and XP is persistent, and you can buy (and sell back) abilities only between matches.

Q: Will there be other weapon modifications besides the ones you get access to via XP? (re-balancing it yourself, "less damage, higher rate of fire" etc.)
A: We haven't talked much about weapon modification yet, but there will be a good range of ways to trick out your guns for enhanced performance.

Q: From what I heard from your PAX interview 'covert ops's' will have the ability to reveal opponents for 30 seconds, could this be triggered server side?
A: Yeah, it's the 'reward' for successfully interrogating an enemy... enemy locations are revealed for X seconds (30, or maybe less as a balance thing) only on the radar, your enemies won't appear on radar unless you've already seen them, or via various other means related to teammate abilities, so not quite as poweful as a wall hack. One of the main things we'll have as a balancing factor on abilities, btw, will be a cooldown period before you can use them again. so if anything is too unbalancing, we'll have the option to only let players do it once every X minutes, for example. That'll also help with the rambo medic, i think, if self-buffs can't be done back to back to back... :)

Q: Is there even a main menu on pc?
A: Yeah, there'll be a front end screen where you choose which character you're going to play with, and once you've done that, you basically see a screen where you can choose which mission you want to go on. if you've got friends in that mission, it'll be co-op automatically. or you can specify if you want it to be competetive, etc. Alternately, after you've chosen your character, you can go to a server browser like where you can search for games with the parameters you like, do filters, sorts, etc.

Q: I already read you are planning to actively support the community after the release, but to what extend?
A: A lot depends on budgets and schedules and sequels and (probably most imporatntly) sales and all of that. but both splashdamage and bethesda have a reputation of supporting games post release, and i would hope that continues with Brink.[/hide]
Comments
278
Wow, longest post i've seen :D
You haven't seen one of mine then!
Parent
pedro, de mama heeft pannekoeke gebakke jongen
Parent
I don't speak Dutch, sorry.
Parent
mom made pancakes
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=D Then post one! :P
Parent
Past ones have been epic! I've made so many children scared by a wall of text. :D
Parent
That wall of text would have most likely been more appealing than this one :P
Parent
2long2read !!!
already posted 1 month ago
hey. my post!
hm, almost all those questions could be summarized in one;

"Is this ET2?"
printed it and took a shit
great read, great read.
Quoteprinted it and took a shit


:DDDDDDDDD
Parent
Q: How many bullets to kill someone?
A: Not very many, though it varies with guns and upgrades and body types and all that. But people have a tendency to go down fast unless they're playing smart.
nice 'summary' :DD
gonna comment now and read later
e:

IS THIS like in ET
IS THAT like in ET
DOES THAT RESEMBLE TO ET
DOES THAT ENGINE LOOK LIKE ET
.............

QuoteThe reason I was hired by Splash, actually, is because of my experience making single player games, and console games.

EPIC FAIL

srsly
fuck off
no matter how many times you change your name you are equally retarded each time.
Parent
DOES MY NICKNAME INCLUDE ET?
cancerboy
Parent
seriously? why would you say that? i don't get it.
Parent
every second question is about Brinks resemblence to ET..
cmon
Parent
...so what? It's a spiritual successor, isn't it?
Parent
do you really believe in that?
didnt they tell us the same about "wolfenstein" beeing the "spiritual successor" to RtCW?
i rly hoped the game would be a success so i could start playing competitive again but..instafail
do you understand why i play HoN so much i want to take it to a higher level so if Brink really is that good as everybody hopes/says i will make personal excuses to xeoxis
Parent
no, not the part about expressing your doubts of whether it'll live up to w:et. that's a perfectly reasonable concern, only time will tell how well we pull it off.

i was talking more about you telling me personally to fuck off. i don't get that. are you saying you literally don't want me to come here and talk to you guys about what could make the game better for competition? i are confused, how does that benefit you or the game?
Parent
Some people here you just have to ignore. They don't know what they're talking about.

Just stay here, we really apreciate the work you do!
Parent
i'm not going anywhere :-) just trying to understand where mlad is coming from, since i don't quite get it. i mean, i doubt he would tell me to fuck off in person if we met on the street. so i'm not sure why he did here...
Parent
The average crossfire user has the need to act like a retard. I believe when he saw the words single player games and console games he raged, seeing as 90 % of this community are die hard PC gamers.
Parent
No omg dont take the words fuck off serious, especially when they come from me.
Im not a native english speaker so usually when i say gtfo or fuckoff i think about the words the austrian way, when u say it here, it doesnt sound so rude ://
its nothing personal rly, nad like xeoxis said people here are used to act retarded
i rly rily appreciate your work here, involvin gamers and stuff, and tbh i didnt know, who you were :D thought you were just some crossfire user :// how could i have known sorry man
i have my expectations about Brink but it seems, i will have to wait for a close beta test before i can make personal judges for myself. its just, you know, wolfenstein, i was waiting for months, they reset the release dates and stuff..and when it finally came out, there was actually nothing interesting in it anymore when i tried it.
Please forgive me, i didnt mean to insult you!
Parent
oh, okay, no problem. :)
Parent
you are on crossfire mate, some people here tend to troll/rage/flame alot.
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Like three people before me already said, this is Crossfire, and there are immature people here who are just here to be annoying and troll, because they're anonimous, just ignore them ;) The most of us love you for being here and hearing us out!
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agree with the previous posters!
ure doing a hell of a job!
Parent
cant believe ive read it all ... :x
make questions bold!
I'm gonna admit I don't have too high expectations for BRINK. Most of the games I had expectations for disappointed me horribly. Rahdo, it's up to you guys to show the gaming industry can do better than killing the PC eSport scene like many developers do.
that's totally reasonable, i can't blame you. i know you guys have been let down a lot, and i can't 100% promise you everything you want either for Brink. all i can say is that i am listening, and even though brink has specific targets to hit that aren't exactly compatible with your needs, i'm still trying to find ways to make a game that works for you too :-)
Parent
That sounds like Wolfenstein's "We want to do what you wish, but we have to focus on making money." No offense intended though. :)
What exactly are "specific targets to hit that aren't exactly compatible with our needs"? Where do our needs interfere your targets, and which targets are these? If we know the issue, we can work on a compromise.
Parent
oh, just basically that we have to appeal to as broad an audience as possible. and the broader audience likes stuff like, say, ironsights. not for gameplay reasons, but because they make them feel more like they're 'firing a gun'.

but as an example, you guys have pretty firmly convinced me of the value of including an option to ironsights off (even though to a lot of other devs it would be almost unthinkable), and so i'm trying to ensure we can provide you guys that as a server option.

basically. :-)
Parent
Then IMO you should clear things up with Bethesda and release the SDK. I'm sure there's pretty much nothing the modders couldn't achieve while you could still aim at any audience you like to aim at.

Just don't make it like Wolfenstein. :)
Parent
i can agree that is an excellent plan :-)
Parent
read like 90% of q&a and I'm pretty sure I'll give this game a try unless you make it worse than wolfenstein which is almost impossible
Rahdo: is this the place to ask questions now?
i'm good either way. i'll probably still check both threads, but 1000+ posts was getting a little crazy over there, i suppose :-)

though i'm surprised at all the 2l2r responses. really, if you just open that thread, and do a search for my name, there's probably only a couple hundred things i've posted. probably 10 minute read. and when my answers don't quite make sense on their own, the question is right there.

i actually like this board style. everything all on 1 page is cool.
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one thing that is tough though is there seems to be no way to tell at a glance which threads have no posts to them. i have to actually open each thread and look manually. is there a way around that, does anyone know?
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if you look @ the forum level you can see the comment counts ?

http://www.crossfire.nu/?x=forum&mode=view&id=18

QuoteFri 22 Jan 10, 10:18
(42 Comments)
Parent
yeah, but then i'd have to remember how many posts there were the last time i visited. if it said (42 posts, 3 new since your last visit), that'd be handy :-)
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gadzukes that would require some sort of crossfire 3.1 implementation :!
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What's with the hack that was implemented before the crash? Pressing j / k to scroll through new answers in a topic. It was really nifty for long topics like this one.
Parent
you aren't wrong i guess the code wasn't backed up anywhere
would be particularly useful with 1000+ comments :z
Parent
it wasnt a hack, it was made by fusen i suppose
the site crashed, and the code was lost and since fusen let go his admin duties, no one is going to redo it
Parent
Well, I guess most people (including me) are just too lazy to use ctrl-F :-D

Any news about the spread screenshots by the way?
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damnit! i am sending an email to our head of QA right now to ask! :-)
Parent
So, what did he say?
Parent
he was actually loathe to put them up right now because they're being reworked now that grips and muzzle breaks (and a few other things) are in the game, and he was afraid that if they were posted here, all hell would break loose and i would be flamed into the ground... :-)

where can i find some sample spreads that represent what you guys are used to? i know i've seen some somewhere (on this site, i'm sure). wanna take them in and see how far off we are...
Parent
There's some in the "Are ironsights really that bad article" here: http://www.crossfire.nu/?x=column&mode=item&id=450

I appreciate the effort : P. Judging by the gameplay vids (which are from last autumn though) the spread was quite accurate from hip too, so I would probably be fine with it. We'll see when the time comes : )
Parent
that's the one i was thinking of, thanks! but if there's any more examples, i'd love to see em!
Parent
You can see the spread for yourself in-game like in the picture if you use g_debugBullets 1 and cl_railtime 999999

Debugbullets shows the bullet trails and railtime sets how long it shows them for.

It's your game, you should know ;-D
Parent
Is there any news about a demo/beta?
nope. haven't worked it out with bethesda yet...
Parent
officially 2 long 2 read
is the sound going to be 5.1 or just normal stereo?
I saw pictures of Richard in my monthly game magazine.

He's a fucking VIP!
Still thankful for your contributions Rahdo :)
Hey Rahdo, I saw this on the PCZone mag. Will this be the cover art? Because it really does look fucking awesome, seriously. One of those games you would pick up in the shop and read the back just because of the cover art.

image: screendhd
The PR company Bethesda has hired (AKQA) have done a lot of art for PR, and I wouldn't be surprised if Bethesda uses them for the official cover art as well...
Parent
Well they did a bloody good job with that pic. Amazing.
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Q: Will it be "overhyped" and suck anyway?
A: Yes, developers dont give a shit about what the "community" actually wants.
Awwww, baby's first insight into the capitalist system?

Heres another for you.
Q: Will they make additional money by making a game that is acceptable to the comp community as well?
A: Yes.

Its in their interest to work with the community. It just so happens that they're cool guys as well, willing to take some risks and some are former comp players themselves.

If you haven't noticed no commercial developer has made a game for the "community". Ever. W:ET wasn't commercial and RTCW wasn't made for the community (because it didn't exist yet).

So the community can either die through no new games (like its doing already) or try to get a game that is easily pro-moddable. Do you think any other developer is likely to make a game for you?

Or the community could make their own perfect 6v6 game like Warsow was the perfect 1v1 game. But that would take effort and then suddenly the people developing it would know what its like to have people write "OMG EPIC FAIL U SUX" and other stupid shit because the hitboxes are 1 pixel too small or something.
Parent
baby's first insight into the capitalist system?

they will make more money listening to console players than to the few whiney ET peeps that wish nothing more than playing "a real ET2".
and i am looking forward to the cod6 promod and bf:bc2.
not saying brink doesnt look and sound great but if they manage to make it a naturally competetive game is highly doubtful.
Parent
Dude, it's fucking Splash Damage we're talking about. They don't release shit games.
Parent
other than ET they only released
# Doom 3 (multiplayer content) (2004) --- ot that great
# Enemy Territory: Quake Wars (2007) --- fail
Parent
I do'nt get at all what you're saying with your posts. SD should ignore the whiny ET community completely? Brink won't be good so cf.nu might as well shut down now because everythings dead and shit?
Parent
no. i am saying that they could create an awesome game with what they already have and if they'd listen to cF-alike communites, but they dont.
just take a look at some of the Q&A above. key problems like ironsight, running while sprinting, id4tech engine, pb support, matchmakind VS dedicated, and many, many more are either the way we dont want it to be or rahdo said "maybe" which means "i know you wont like the answer but i want you to buy it".

as i see it our opinion does not have the power it would need to turn this game into a second ET.
Parent
i say 'maybe' because i genuinely don't know. making games is hard. there's a lot of moving parts, easy to break everything, and there's never enough time or money (unless you're valve)

all i can tell you is that i'm trying to hear what's important. it's why i've often asked here "well, of these two things, which is more important" so i can get an idea of what your guys' priorities are, because as I've said since day one here, not everything you guys value will make it in. but if there's is stuff that i can get in, i'll do my damnest, because i view you guys as the people who could potentially be playing brink in 3 or 4 years post launch, if we support you right.

the trick is supporting you without compromising what we need to do to make the game a big hit (because the comapny not going out of business is more important than ensuring the game is still played 5 years down the road).
Parent
then let me adress the stuff i have said in a mannor thats useful:

- ironsight: not at all a gamekiller, quite nice actually, needs to be blanaced (movementspeed while looking down the sight, is that enough? does that force the "unscoped shooting" to be unpresise like in any other game or can it be ET-alike?).

- shooting while sprinting: a must have for fans of fast gameplay (includes reloading while sprinting).

- id4tech engine: well its too late for that i guess but what this "id4tech sux" is a symbol for is the idea that in ET (and e.g. CoD) you get a feeling for your char where as in ET:QW (and all BFs) you dont.

- pb support: not only does pb slow you down and lagg but it lacks the abilitie to bust cheaters and that leads not only to many cheaters but also to false suspecion and flame all over.

- matchmaking VS dedicated: a matchmaking system isnt even that bad if it doesnt replace a server browser. and the lack of dedicated servers in cod6 saves us money on the one hand but also prevents modding and communities from growing.

nothing new and nothing no1 else said before but being quite amazed by the fact that you take the time to read this content and reply i thought this is the least i can do.
please make BRINK worth all the hope we are putting into this =)
Parent
that's interesting. when i first got here, i mostly heard from people that iron sights/strafe jumping were almost tied for highest priority to fix, and strafe jumping was barely even mentioned at all.

i know this is subjective, and what's important to some is unimportant to others (for example, you're not *that* turned off by IS, but for others it's like sunlight to a vampire).

i think this is too adhoc. i think we need to get more scientific about this. admins, does crossfire have poll taking capability? i think i want to make a list of ALL the important game features that keeps you guys playing WolfET to this day, and then let the whole community vote on what the absolute most important stuff is (that we're not already doing... a good match browser is already in the cards, so we could take that off the big voting list)

admins, what say you?
Parent
i send the link to this comment to Krosan. i hope he will contact you in order to gather useful information in a poll.
Parent
Quotei think i want to make a list of ALL the important game features that keeps you guys playing WolfET to this day, and then let the whole community vote on what the absolute most important stuff is (that we're not already doing... a good match browser is already in the cards, so we could take that off the big voting list)


This is fucked up. Feature that was core thing since online gaming went big, now is something we have to "worry about" being included in MP FPS.

Huge thank you for including it.








CONSOLE GAMING FUCK YEAAAAAAAAAA.
Parent
could you request a list of things we hate about et too or would like to change in a new game? :)

love your work keep it up!
Parent
that's easy

pretty much everything that is different from RtCW :D
Parent
see, you'd think that's easy, but i bet if you asked everyone on here, they'd give a slightly different (and sometimes largely different) list.

hence i'm curious to try to get a 'majority' opinion, if possible -- though that might just not be possible, really. opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one :-) (where did that expression come from?)
Parent
:D

I know that a lot of people like many things in ET way better than RtCW but for me there are only a few (equal stats for MP40 and Thompson is one of them).

Brink will not be another RtCW or W:ET, which is fine, but I'm a little bit worried that it will loose "ingenuity through simplicity" by putting more stuff in it, just like ET and ET:QW did for me.

But as you said, you don't want go out of business and with a MP like W:ET or RtCW you wouldn't sell enough copies, that's how the gaming business is today.

PS: ... and your opinion gets bigger in jail
Parent
I think shooting while sprinting is not that important. Rahdo already said somewhere that the transition from sprinting to shooting is instantly. That was the worst about Call of Duty in my opinion. If you were meeting an enemy while sprinting you were as good as dead as it took so damn long before you could shoot.

Most fights in ET were without stamina anyway as it was used to get around the map as fast as possible.
Parent
that would (only) require the base movementspeed to be fast enough then.
Parent
Like I said in my comment that HtS deleted, if you can shoot while sprinting then theres no point to having running and it becomes another useless speed/animation like walking. And limiting sprint is a bad idea as it slows down gameplay.
Parent
walking's not useless

-crouching -> move very slowly, make no sound, very stable bulletspread
-walking -> move slowly, make no sound, stable bulletspread
-running -> move fast, make sound, stable bulletspread
-sprinting -> move very fast, make sound, less stable bulletspread

granted walking is not used often but there are situations where it is useful.
Parent
Both of them have been way better games than most of the other new games out there.. Quake Wars wasn't that bad TBH, I actually found it good during my intensive 3-day tests at my cousin's (never had it myself though), and Doom 3 was quite amusing although it was rather simple in terms of level design: Corridor, room full of monsters, corridor, more corridor, room full of monsters and repeat. But the original Dooms were mostly that way too so it's no problem.
Parent
they did the doom3 MP only.
ET:QW was way worse than any BF or CoD when it comes to MP.
And there have been alot of cool SP games around but SD doesnt really seem to care about SP (could be a good thing though).
Parent
well, not everyone here is happy about it, but we do care about SP too, but we're doing it in a way where we kind of get it "for free" by basically taking the standard ET structure of objective based teamplay, and wrap a story around it with cutscenes :-)

we're still multiplayer focused first and foremost, though

also, i'd be interesting to here more from you about what specifically ETQW failed at for you, and why it was so inferior to BF or CoD
Parent
I've never liked CoD or BF too much, actually. BF mainly because of the vehicles and too beeg chaos and CoD because of the generally too campy playstyle (on publiks atleast).

Quake Wars wasn't the kind of game I'd play as much as Enemy Territory, but it was fine. Although it had vehicles and shit, it still had this little something that made it worth a while.
Parent
for me i downloaded the beta of the game and it lagged like no tomorrow
it felt amazingly unsmooth, sounds were out of sync and plus i hate vechiles in games :p

though i did like some features like the medic ammo crate thing and having asymetric teams wasnt all that bad
Parent
well, just additionally to my last question in the old thread:
What is the 'profile'(there is going to be one without a doubt, am I right?!) going to include/reveal to the other players?
hadn't really thought about it (haven't gotten to designing that part of the GUI yet). What do you guys think it should?
Parent
well, to show you that 'we' actually care for you to have it being a success i'll also list some which might appeal to the 'avarge pub player' in my opinion:

-certainly your all so loved and cherished awards:P
-probably k/d ratio stats
-maybe even weapon stats?
-maybe but really only maybe (since it might reveal too much about your playstyle) which quest you do the most
-your rank/level/xp
-favoured class probably
-time played maybe
-as already pointed out in the other post (divided into 'time played offline' and 'time played online')
-your nickname obviously
-clanname aswell I'd say
-favoured map maybe? (maybe somehow alike to how it's done on splatterladder.com with those playerprofiles - but can't really tell you if people like that way or care for it, didn't use it for years - actually didn't use it in a serious matter what so ever, sorry to have to let you down on that one)

will you have the name matter done in the same way as in ET:QW - that you only get one nick and may be able to change your clantag or will you be able to change your nickname (and probably holding some record of which name that person has been using?)
Or was it that you are totally anonymous within the game (not sure it wasn't the case - if thats the case you might aswell neglect all things concerning the names I've been writing)

-not a clue about how hard it might be to actually display a 2d version of the model (or upper body and head) in some sort of profile picture, or if that actually would cause too much traffic and consume too many resources

Just some options you might want to pick from (really would love to tell you which of those you should definitely take in - but since I'm only partially part of your main audience I simply can't tell you what might be worth to be taken in - it's up to you...well would have been anyway,but...:P)
I'll let you know if I can come up with some more propositions the next days.
Parent
win/loss and kill/death stats are a big no no in my opinion. They just lead to lame gameplay.

I would definitely like to see a representation of your character, though.
Parent
well what would you think about maybe even having a filter in your profile? Because I'd say that the opinions will be quite split about rather having k/d ratio shown or not (but now thinking of it - win/loss may or may not be useless - depending on how well the balancing will do, the ratio should mostly be around 1 (setteling after your skillrange has been reached ) I guess.
rahdo - would you consider the possibility of accessing the profiles online(via webaccess), or do you want those accessable ingame(-only)?
Parent
Either you care about your win/loss stats or you don't. If you do not care about it it doesn't matter if they are shown or not. He who cares will want to show off though. Making it toggable wouldn't change anything in my opinion.
Parent
well but there are most likely certain people who care but simply have awful stats and thus not want to show them? I'm quite confident this type is also existant:)
Parent
if i had to choose, i would actually probably err to all the profile stuff actually appearing on the website, since we can do so much more there (coding HTML is much faster and more efficient than gamecode, and if we spend too much of our very stretched thing in game GUI on it, other stuff suffers). but we'll see how it goes...
Parent
I think this is definitely NOT what the competitive community wants. This is what the random lowskilled pub players want. Rahdo is here to listen to the competitive side. We really don't need any more of your opinions that will only cause another MW2 disaster, where the developers only thought of the pub players and completely ignored the competitive side.
Parent
Actually i didn't say with a word, that it would be what a competitive player (thats what i'd call mysellf aswell) would want - but some pub player.
If he's already here - why would I only tell him what 'we' would want to see in the game, if there's also stuff coming to my mind, which 'he' overall might benefit from?

I don't know any competitive players what so ever, who really care about profiles, so please, don't put it like all I'd tell him would be a pile of bullshit and get an idea of what group of players I'm actually talking of...
(you might have noticed, from the thousand posts he's left here, that we're NOT his main target group - and I'm not suggesting those things because I'm either lunatic or wanting him to focus more on his main target group, but actually just trying to help him save some time on the one part to have more time(and probably even interest) to focus on the competitive side of the game)
Parent
i'll take any and all suggestions, actually. but it is true that i'm definitely here to hear about what you guys want.

on the topic of k/d ratio, we've already decided we really want to downplay it. i think it should still be available for a player to see his own overall tally, but we're not going to make leaderboards about it (and in fact, we're strongly leaning towards not doing leaderboards at all, because they can encourage the wrong behavior).

if i had all the time in the world, i'd want to go crazy for this stuff... heatmaps for every level with a million different stats, full match event histories, etc., but there's only so much time on the schedule, so if we only get a few, we've got to choose wisely.

interesting notion that pro players don't care that much about profile info. is that generally a common view?
Parent
well, you can't care that much about profiles in competition imo(well, joking about some stats at the end of a round is nice and stuff, but if you want your team to succeed you can not really care for your stats - considerung accuracy and k/d or medic xp or what ever you want to pick, you mostly need to cover all fields which overall make the stats not quite impressive (well, or whats even occuring more often, you simply have only 1-2 player in your team which get positioned in a way they would be able to get decent stats because they're mostly roaming the map/are backed up by others that draw fire/heal them etc.)
Parent
surely XP, if done right, is still applicable though. it's just a matter of rewarding the player only for the stuff that makes the team win. so the guy with the highest XP at the end of a match is the one who truly put in the most to get the game won, no?
Parent
not if there is for example a medic contriubuting to the survival of the engineer, which, lets put it in a simple way, only needs to move and do his job without risking anything (well, it's actually more ocmplicated for an engineer, BUT the medic will imo most likely get less XP out of keeping the engineer alive, whilst he gets those XP because someone sacrifices himself for this job)

Also you often have someone on a more defensive position to be able to retreat a little or have a backup plan incase some would need to respawn. The defensive player SHOULD normally not get as much XP as the others do (only if the opponents always reach through to him, shouldn't be the case). Though he does an excellent and necessary job and contributes a lot to holding a stage he still won't get as much XP, so XP would secondary to him(imo).
Parent
good examples. here's how we address both of them in Brink's XP distribution:

the engineer is going to get a very nice chunk of XP if he completes the core objective. the medic, otoh, gets more XP for healing him and reviving him than anyone else at that time, because the engineer is the MVP of the match (the only one who can do the core objective).

also, the medic gets XP over time if he chooses to escort the engineer, which means staying close to him so he can be there to help the engineer when the going gets tough. and alternately, the medic can earn XP over time if he stands guard at or near the core objective site, so that when the engineer arrives, he's got more cover fire. so that defensive player who can get rewarded as well...
Parent
nicely addressed indeed.

Still XP doesn't give you any benefit within the match right?
If thats the case XP still might not be quite valuable for 'us'.

From what I've seen in Combat Arms was, that everyone went playing on a public to gain XP and din't quite as much care for XP in a clan match.
But if the XP gained in the match would reflect how well you/your team has done, maybe then people might start to care for it(just an attempt, I don't know for sure though).
How about you try to build in a multiplicator for XP based on how fast you complete the map/how long your opponent needs to succeed?
Or how about displaying your avarge time you need to attack/you can hold a map?
Parent
NO!

This can be abused so hard. Just no.
Parent
you mean as in: 'hey there - we don't know each other but...lets loose so the other people we don't know either get more XP"? Makes total sense :D
Or did you probably think of two clans boosting each others XP? Can't imagine many people doing that.

Or did you refer to displaying the times? I reccon not - nothing I can see about that to be abusable - apart from that you might choose the map upfront after searching profiles to max out your chance to win -Also can't imagine many people doing this :)
Parent
Re-Read it, and sorry, I got you wrong. I thought you meant that the amount of your XP influences the Objective time. :XD
Parent
yeah, i want to do stuff like even give a bonus to the losing team at the end of the match, if they held out a particularity long time.

the XP doesn't give you any kind of advantage mid-match though. while you can 'level up' during play, you can't spend any of that XP to buy new abilities until you're between matches...
Parent
Well, what just now jumps to my mind is - how strong are those turrets and how many of those can a heavy place? (or only one at a time?)

Can they block doorways/small corridors?

How much damage can they take?

Are they nonstop firering or in salvos?

(still refering to the heavy) What amount of energy does it consume (in %) to place a turret?
Parent
is this related to the anti-spawn subthread? players don't get to place those kinds of indestructible turrets.

they turrets that one can put down aren't anywhere near as strong as a normal player. they can be damaged very quickly (destroying takes longer, but while damaged they're totally off line), they have no collision (or rather, they have 'soft' collision... you can't stand inside one, but you can move through it easily - this is true for collision with players as well)

player spawned turrets are really best though of as 'distractions'. they generally don't get kills by themselves (unless someone's not paying attention at all), but they do make the enemy keep moving, to distract them for a few key seconds so you can surprise them...
Parent
yea well, was thinking about rather how strong those turrets would be, if it would be possible to take out an entire team with the assistance of it, but since you say it could easily be disabled I don't really see any problems at all:)

But still, whats the avarge damage output of those? (the damage of a medium sized machinegun?)

If you say there's only small collusions, does that mean, that moving through them slows down?

What about damage knock-back? (Would this make it possible to shoot people out of the turret over and over again?)

I believe that friendly fire is disabled in either way for those turrets?
(because of opponents would get slowed down while moving through it I'd simply tosse some more grenades behind it so the opponents don't even have a chance to move back :P)
Parent
don't have a damage per second value for them handy. i would hazzard a guess that they're roughly similar to a standard assault rifle (however, they take a moment to start shooting, which is their primary weakness, so they can only ever get kills if you're ignoring them)

soft collision in brink means you don't slow down moving through something, but if you try to stop 'inside' it, you get pushed out slowly.

being shot doesn't make you move, either from enemy players or turrets.

yeah, if ff is off, they can't 'accidentally' hurt a friendly (in the odd case where someone moves into their line of fire)
Parent
so you did make sure that the turret only effects your movement if there is none?!

'if' ff is off...hmmm
well you can't do something about some fun takers now can you?!
But my question was more aimed on if you are able to accidentally destroy your teams' turrets with explosives or bullets :)

Would already have thought that being their big weakness. But can you simply strafe back and fourth behind a corner and the turret needs to take aim again at the target or is there a leasetime for the turret to focus? What happens if two persons do so forming a crossfire, does the turret probably get confused and starts to spin only? :P
Parent
being shot doesn't affect your movement at all... it just does a first person (slight) shudder of the screen (enough to tell your being hit, not enough to totally screw your aim). this is true for being shot by players or turrets.

and yeah, if friendly fire is on, you can destroy your team's turrets (not sure about mines though)

the turrets main weakness (in a game balancing way) is the amount of time it takes them to acquire a target and start shooting (so you can always get the drop on them easily if you're paying attention). once they have acquired you though, they'll keep tracking you for quite awhile and so if you duck for cover and then come back up, they'll be waiting for you, pretty single mindedly (but then at that point, a buddy can drop them pretty easily, since they have one track minds)
Parent
"they have no collision (or rather, they have 'soft' collision... you can't stand inside one, but you can move through it easily - this is true for collision with players as well)"

so no more climbing on top of other peoples heads to surprise the enemy

that's disappointing and a step towards more sterile gameplay
Parent
yup, no more stacking, but instead, be a skinny guy and you can climb up 20' walls by yourself... :-)
Parent
yea but there's no real surprise since the enemy knows that wall is something a skinny guy can climb, and if climbing that wall is useful during a certain time in a match, it's climbed often during that time.

i understand why you didn't include hard collisions between players, to make things like blocking doorways with team damage off impossible. but a simple "push" mechanic solves all of those, and for example a doc runner running through you to transmit the documents like one of you were a ghost or something would feel very lame i think. also, now that i think of it, a skinny medic that stays inside a teammate with a heavy body when attacking would be a pretty effective tactic, just revive when your "shield" is killed. but yes, i'll just have to wait and see if this thing is a big deal in practice when the game is released, i hope it is not.

also a question came to mind, are there things in brink that make it possible to see someone else doing something that makes you go "awesome, i had no idea you could do that!" after for example a year spent playing it. things that aren't readily apparent, that are kind of hidden "extensions" of the game mechanics but are useful things to do in some situations. things like trick jumps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4PWt0q8hPw, or stacking players to climb to higher places, to mention a few available in rtcw/et.
Parent
Push is a way to solve it, but it also creates more opportunities for asshats to mess up everyone's fun. "Hey teammate, are you lining up to shoot at enemies as they come around the corner? how about I... PUSH YOU SO YOU MISS! HA!" or "how about I PUSH YOU OUT OF COVER SO YOU CAN GET SHOT! MUHAHAHAHA!" type asshole behavior.

With our soft colision, a player can't 'hide' inside of another one. You get 'pushed out' if you try that.

and the notion of someone coming over a particular wall because they're skinny is no more or less of a suprise than people coming over a wall because they've stacked. everyone knows where good stacking locations are. teams either do it or they don't. just like in brink, everyone knows where good climbinb spots are, and team either have 'acrobatic' characters who can do it, or they don't...

as for finding new features of a map or whatever, yeah, i think there's the potential for that, primarily through our 'wallhopping' feature. our testers are constantly finding new shortcuts and speed optimizations in levels. to see a small example of it, check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGBUssSP0g0 (this is taken from the new www.brinkthegame.com website). bear in mind, this is video from months ago, so things are smoother now (you'll notice some bugs and glitches and stuff), but the important parts are at 35 seconds, 40 seconds, and 1:25 - especially that last one). I think we've got another video coming out soon that will show more examples of those kinds of shortcuts and speed-ups... :)
Parent
hehe, yea push could be used for trolling purposes of course, in et it isn't used in that way because people are usually moving when shooting and effective trolling of snipers and such would take a lot of skill because you'd need to know the exact moment someone is about to pull the trigger, and you'd probably only be able to do it once or twice before getting a kickban.

"With our soft colision, a player can't 'hide' inside of another one. You get 'pushed out' if you try that. "

how does that work? can you not do tiny movements to counteract the 'pushing out' mechanism?

everyone knows where good stacking locations are.

yes, but in some cases it requires two people to go someplace not relevant to the attack that is happening, and only one of them benefits from it while the other one needs to spent more time on the return trip. and in pub games getting someone to boost you is rare, so if you for example manage to climb over the west wall in "supply depot" there is a good change no one in the defending team is watching for that to happen. whereas if someone could climb the wall with a press of a button, it would happen often enough for people on the defending team to always look out for it.

but yes, the effects of the ability to stack players depends heavily on map design, and i suppose the surprise factor can be included with map design in Brink too, if for example reaching some useful place is hard and takes a long time to travel/climb and so isn't used often.

very cool video! the non-sprinting movement speed could be faster and whoever was playing seemed to be using a gamepad and so was very clumsy, but there seems to be a lot of potential in the movement system. looking forward to the next video and hoping you can do everything other than climb when moving backwards!
Parent
yeah, you're right that push abuse was less prevalent on PC, but in general, there are fewer assholes on PC than on console. And since we're doing console, we have to take that into account (kind of always assuming "worst case scenarios" for jerks, basically)

Quotehow does that work? can you not do tiny movements to counteract the 'pushing out' mechanism?

You could, but you'd have to work at it, at which point you're focusing on it so much that you're being less than efficient and you'd be better off finding other ways to stay alive.

very good points about the sacrificial nature of group stacking though. I have to concede that this is basically something we've lost, unfortunately :-( but in the end, I think it's worth it to help keep jerks under control. hopefully we've added enough other stuff to make up for it...

Quotevery cool video! the non-sprinting movement speed could be faster and whoever was playing seemed to be using a gamepad and so was very clumsy, but there seems to be a lot of potential in the movement system. looking forward to the next video and hoping you can do everything other than climb when moving backwards!

That was a skinny running, but since that video, we've up'd his sprint speed by quite a bit. and yeah, it was bezzy running around with a gamepad, so his actions were a bit sloppy and inelegant, which is to be expected.

a week doesn't go by that i'm not surprised by some new shortcut that our internal testers have found by using wall jumps. i'm really starting to think that you guys will have a lot of fun leveraging it to the max. for instance, we've got a demo coming up, and paul said "I want to do some freedom

of movement climbing in this room" as part of the show he's doing. so we were talking about maybe putting a couple extra crates here or there to let him do it, since we'd never planned for it in that room to begin with. but then bezzy came over and found a way to do it (climb a railing while going up the stairs, at the top of the stairs long jump off towards a statue, bounce off the statue with a hard right, and grab the upper railing to pull up) that we never anticipated, and it was awesome. of course, it's a VERY hard maneuver to pull off, so we went ahead and put a crate temporarily in for paul (it's not good for him to miss his jumps in a demo), but we'll take the crate back out after the demo and leave the "hard timing jump" for you guys to find... :-)
Parent
QuoteYou could, but you'd have to work at it, at which point you're focusing on it so much that you're being less than efficient and you'd be better off finding other ways to stay alive.

not knowing the exact mechanics of it, i'd recommend not underestimating peoples' willingness to spend surprising amounts of time perfecting the tiniest things. meaning that unless the system is somehow randomized, there will likely be a way to reliably exploit it, and people will find it, learn it, and store it in their spine! in theory at least, whether it is practical and useful, for example doing it for a few seconds in some situations, i don't know.

the movement system seems pretty awesome and i'm starting to not be disappointed that strafe jumping mechanics aren't in the game! a question about the context sensitivity though, i notice @0:35 Bezzy does a wall hop without pointing at the wall, am i right in assuming that when doing tricks manually (not using the s.m.a.r.t button), the context sensitive system is based on the position and momentum of the player model, not on where you are looking. for example, could he have done the trick @1:25 without first looking at the wall he launches from?

if the context sensitive system is based on player model position and momentum, not where you look, it will add a whole other easily accessible dimension to fights never before seen in fps games. well, fights in warsow can have some verticality, but nothing like this system would enable, especially if the accuracy of the guns isn't affected too much by not having your feet planted on solid ground. i mean aiming at a target moving vertically isn't really that different to aiming at one moving horizontally, at first it probably feels strange but people will adapt eventually. the unexpectedness of vertical movement is counteracted by the predictability of the path it happens along and the effective speed, so the accuracy of the gun while doing tricks shouldn't be affected too much imo, if at all.
Parent
very very very nicely addressed :)

that will definetly encourage team play.

heck on a public server with people going for XP you might even get big 6 man rushes with people reviving like crazy to get to an objective with an engineer, something that only currently happens in scrims

however do spawns count as objectives? i.e. if a player is spawn camping will he get extra XP or not?
Parent
nope, spawn camping gets no bonuses. arguably it should, since of course, it's a very powerful tactic to help your team win, but i don't want to reward asshole behaviour...

(plus, we're putting in anti-spawn camping stuff anyway: indestructible spawn defensive turrets, and temp invincibility for the respawned, to keep spawn campers away and back in the actual fight)
Parent
Really you want to keep 'spawn camping' to the competitive arena only. Spawn protection was in ET and works well in my opinion although for me the best way to stop spawn camping is to have well designed maps which give either team a chance to get out alive.

Things like 2 or 3 wideish exits from an indoor spawn with no landmines near by makes spawn killing hard in ET atleast.

The idea of turrets worries me a bit even if they aren't too powerful but simply because it might make the spawn area too strong. Could be a bit annoying in competitive play if its not balanced as that tactic will be harder especially without airstrikes. But its nice to see you're addressing the issue:)
Parent
Come to think of oasis delivery or braundorf you can hardly say that you get anywhere with your spawn protection imo.

And sicne I firmly belive that the spawnarea isn't going to be anywhere near the objective I'm quite confident in 'spawn turrets' not being an issue :)

But yea, I also think the spawns should have at least two if not three exits and spread pretty soon.
Parent
yeh but if u have too much spawn protection then its hard to defend and pointless - try playing on one of those NQ server with 5-10 second spawn protection its just stupid

good map layout will help though but im not sure turrets are needed really - easiest option is a cvar to turn them off :)

remember brink doesnt have airstrikes so im not sure what you'd spawn kill with really
Parent
with grenades and heavy weapons obviously no?:P

(and it doesn't necessarily make it an impossible thing to defend if you can not spawnkill after al - just harder (more defensive/the zone where you 'spawnkill shifts out of the protected zone)
Parent
personally i think spawn killing is more useful to an offending team than a defending one

for an offending team it stops the enemy getting into position near objectives meaning their easier to take

for defending teams it just wastes time and you usually have plenty of time to respawn back in your base ready to get back in position before the arrive

you're right about grenades & heavy weapons though they're not as effective hence my point about spawn killing already being harder in brink let alone with the turrets
Parent
yup, our first line of defense against spawn camping, as you guys say, is level design. The turrets are only there to prevent enemies from literally standing 5 or 6 feet away from the actual spawn markers and opening fire the instant one respawns. They don't leech out "into the real map" (in fact, if you're just some new player who isn't familiar with the map and is wandering around, before you step into the potential line of fire of one of these turrets, you hear VO from your squad commander (AI) saying "you're in danger, get out of there!"
Parent
ah thats better :)

and its good there's a warning for newer players

im guessing though that the spawns are going to be away from objective routes so the opposite of 'Goldrush' where you can take a route through the axis spawn to steal the gold. But im not going to cry about that :p

nice one rahdo:)
Parent
Yea, spawnkilling really is more or less the factor shifting odds by forcing the defending team into offence. BUT, tell me, does it really make such a big difference if you kill the opponent 6 meters from spawn or 20 meters from spawn - imo it's just going to be a bigger challange :)
Parent
Yea, spawnkilling really is more or less the factor shifting odds by forcing the defending team into offence. BUT, tell me, does it really make such a big difference if you kill the opponent 6 meters from spawn or 20 meters from spawn - imo it's just going to be a bigger challange :)

well, in the grand scheme of things, a dead enemy is a dead enemy, no matter where he's dead. but if he's 10' away from an objective that can make your team lose the match, he's a much greater threat than if he's 1000' away...

but yeah, shoot 'em wherever you can :)
Parent
Well, the big advantages a spawnkilling team has are that first the spawning team doesn't know where you are (well there are always some default positions but...) and second that they are concentrated so they can not organize or build a crossfire.

But yes, apart from that it doesn't really matter rather you kill them 20 meters from their spawn or 6 other than that it gets frustrating always being on fullspawn maybe.

But if the splitting ways leading from your spawn to the objective(s) are starting within the zone you might have a chance to at least degrade the efficiency of spawnkilling or even render it useless.

If it works out it might bring some thrilling matches :)
Parent
IMO the profile could have some freeform text parts where you can put what teams you play for (supposing that this game will be playable competitively :-p) and other stuff about you (Liek cool freeform awards à la Crossfire). Of course some players are going to put profanities and other stuff there, but hey, you're going to run into the same shit if you ever play online so what's the problem.

Then it could have basic info like K/D ratio and stuff. I wouldn't really like a clanname part there, because that'd probably only support one clan and some people are in many.
Parent
You can surely add some goofy stuff here to attract the mass, but don't implement that strange system from ET:QW where you had to sign up on a forum to get a nickname reserved or something, and then use that nickname in-game (or whatever it was, it was way too cumbersome).

Just like darthmob said, if you add those things, you will get another MW2, where people try to find exploits to gain XP faster, where people only care about their freaking rank or killstreaks... The gameplay should be enough to keep players playing the game.
Parent
Maybe I'm just too lazy to watch some of the vids again but with all the character customization how do you recognize the different classes?
It can be pretty usefull to kill (and gib) the engi or medic first. ;)
from what I've read on the SD board the resistance team will not wear any shirts and the security have to wear them
Parent
hm, that didn't really look like that on the "character customization" trailer, I guess it will not be a real problem to see the difference between friend an foe (mybe triangles or something like that over the head?) but that doesn't answer my question about the different clsses ;)
Parent
Hmm don't really favor target indicators, rather friend-indicators such as fireteam overlay, you could simply include the class as a symbol into those, also the classes carry different backpacks afaik
but apart from the backpack i don't know of any possibility for opponents to see what kind of target they have faced.
Parent
backpacks would help, I hope there is also something to see it from the front

I'm not a fan of target indicators either because with them you can sometimes see the indicator allthough you don't really see the enemy
Parent
yeah, we're still experimenting with the backpacks, though they do have the problem, as mentioned, of not helping when viewed from the front.

right now in game, we do friendly HUD indicators, and enemy indicators, but the enemy indicators *only* appear when you're directly aiming at them, and you have line-of-sight to them (not when they just happen to be within the bounds of the screen, unlike ETQW, where the red triangles were a huge mistake).

so far in our playtests there hasn't any problem with positions being unfairly revealed, since if you aren't already trying to shoot at them, the have no HUD indicator at all, so you still have to keep an eye peeled.

and the enemy indicator is basically just the class icon, so if all else fails, you can still tell where the engineer is in the mob who's trying to repair the core objective :-)
Parent
Friend-Foe detection sounds good this way and other games have proven that it works well.

Some thing that popped in my head is to put some kind of coloured "armband" with the class logo on the characters, not a perfect solution but it could work at least for a comp/pro mode, where it is more needed anyway.
Parent
No ET2 no win.
Ironshit....nice try bro
Whats this supposed to achieve?
Parent
yeah, i'm not sure myself. and i'm also not sure how many times i have to repeat that a 'server setting to disable ironsights' is on the to do list... :-0
Parent
yep i know but dude is as easy as hell. If u want to earn money easily do like serious sam creators....serious sam HD. Is too dificult? The same game with a fews diferent improves (High definition and dunno more). The fans dont want games like W:ET with a lots of new trick....we want W:ET2 omg.
(BTW W:ET Have more players than sam obviously)
Is a secret ok? shhh
Parent
Remake the game based on an intellectual property held by someone else (id) and published by Activision who did them no favours at all? A game which was less popular than Battlefields, TF2, CoDX despite being free?

Seriously, if you're going to ask for unreasonable things or impossible things, why bother commenting?
Parent
Your truth but i didnt write free
Parent
QuoteA game which was less popular than Battlefields, TF2, CoDX despite being free?


A game which is still one of the most played FPS games online. For 8 years. I wouldn't play masterpiece like ET:QW if it was for free. Got the point?

I don't know why the fuck you mention TF2 as it was released 4 years later, but hey whatever rocks your boat.

Battlefield is for vehicle lovers, aka SIMS has more players than ET too.

And COD is CS #2.
Parent
The spread of #1 FPS daily players to #5 FPS daily players goes something like 100,000 to 12k. W:ET is "popular" but still has no players compared to popular games.

I didn't track FPS player populations more than 5 years ago so I don't have numbers for W:ETs first 3 years but they've barely changed since I started watching. I doubt it beat BF2's launch of 50k and stabilised at 25k so the question remains: Why was a commercial game more successful than a free one? Or another comparison - how was CS able to switch from mega-popular free mod to ultra-popular commercial game with 5x player count of W:ET?

W:ET is not a good candidate for a commercial remake.
Parent
Prior to BF2 and COD2, ET was loosing only to CS (to which popularity I do not know any other reasons than it being simple, easily accessible, being mod of one of the best FPS games ever made, and simply fun and competitive game) in popularity.

After I consider it "generation" gap. Most people playing BF2 (which was released 2 years after ET) did not even know ET existed. And most of FPS online players weren't even around that time when RTCW and even ET were released. As about that time I think internet had the biggest amount of relatively new users "joining" in.

And even then it had a huge piece of pie of FPS gamers. Actively topping BF2/COD2 (considering COD's selling point was SP campaign) in charts week by week basis. But the game is getting older, people are leaving or switching, you can't expect it to keep up with these new hyped titles without any advertising. Even now, with all the big names around, it's still there, on top.

But people still keep playing almost 8 year old game. While all other games add a new number to their name each year.

Being free doesn't mean being good. Do you honestly believe if ET:QW or Wolfenstein (LOL) would be free, we would see many people playing it even after 3 years?
Parent
i understand what you're saying, but you've got to understand where we're coming from too.

keeping splash damage running and everyone employed literally costs millions of pounds every year (we've got 70 people now). a sweet little remake game like serious sam HD is cool, and successful in its own way since it can be done on a shoestring budget, but there's no way it makes enough of a return to pay the bills for us. we need a game that sells millions of copies, at full retail, not hundreds of thousands at digital download rates, or we go out of business.

which is why we have to make a game that courts the cod and halo fans of the universe too. that said, it doesn't mean that we have to give up on the competitive scene (which is why i'm here), but we have to have the bigger picture in mind too... :-)
Parent
Are you serious? You can disable the ironsight by a simple setting? If this is true, you could also make the spread not that wide so ppl wont "have" to use the ironsight, right? Also, there is going to be a stopwatch mod? Sorry if I ask you those questions, no idea if you still come on this site :p. But if you look here, it means you care about the opinions of players here, almost everybody wants a "fast game", not a cod like/battlefield like. Also a question, the ratefire is going to depend of the weapon I guess, right?

cheers!
Parent
Once you put a grip and muzzle break on a weapon, the spread is pretty tight, no need to use ironsights really (as long as you burst fire). We'll definitely have a stopwatch mode. We do have different rates of fire on different weapons.
Parent
Going over several screen shots i have noticed, the light rendering, so the first thing that hit me like a bat out of hell, was if your perhaps introducing a night campaign of some sort. Perhaps a midnight to dawn time span in order to complete the objective.

edit: Awesome character customization you have, very smooth incorporated masks, oh and the best part is, you do have my official colors, therefore i can already see myself building a team for this game.


Excellent work all round.

http://brinkgamers.com/content/brink-character-customisation-trailer
the two storyline campaigns take place during the first week of the civil was that breaks out on the Ark (actually, the first week and a half). some of the missions during that week take place at day time, night time, dawn and dusk. but since the missions all last the same type of length you've seen in previous enemy territory games, you won't be seeing day turning to night over the course of a match. that's a cool idea though for future games. will have to make a note of it!

each faction has a colour range that the other doesn't have (artists are still working out particulars). we were going to do a thing for automatic clan colours, but that had to be cut for time :-( But clans can still just coordinate on their own to make sure all their memebers match up...
Parent
If you were to implement a game environment, then i guess a change in time shift would be a an important part of game play. For example if the map was to begin with daylight and during the game play it begun to rain then obviously aiming factor would be theoretically be compromised due to the external forces of wind and rain. Well enough of that, back to the basics.

As for the colors, well as i stated earlier on, the color coordination incorporated are what my intended colors are to be. So in short, "Im a happy camper"

In closing, well, i must say the reading regarding the internal activity of the company made me smile as i too have come across and lived similar events in other businesses. I guess its what makes your every day 9-5 (so to speak) slightly more enjoyable.

On a side note, perhaps your PR personal could do with some more online activity as its been 2 odd weeks since last relevant or should i say eye opening content release.

Sincerely
A friend.
Parent
yeah, I think there's going to be some more PR coming in the next month or so, I'm not sure though. i just have to trust that Bethesda marketing knows what they're doing, since they trust us that we know what we're doing with making the game.

and myself, i'm doing good if i can get on the forums once a week these days. having to really start crunching...
Parent
Something brilliant would be environment that affects the game play in the purpose of making full holds harder. For example, if a team defends the first stage for 15 minutes on a 20 minutes time limit map, something from the environment pops up (weather, new objects..?) to help the attacking team and/or penalize the defending team. The idea would be that setting a time on a map is better than doing full hold. Furthermore, making full hold would be deserving and prestigious because harder to perform.
Parent
we actually investigated doing some stuff like that, but erred to the side of caution and didn't introduce too many new experimental stuff to the classic ET gameplay structure. maybe for a brink 2 though! we've got a lot of ideas along these lines :-)
Parent
i'm happy if the movement system (the response to keyboard and mouse input) is as deep, responsive, smooth and fast as it is in rtcw. the movement system splash damage decided to implement in et feels a little loose and clunky compared to it but isn't too broken to not be enjoyable. anything more "realistic" will make me unhappy. also, the strafejumping mechanism (mouse movement affects player movement) needs to be implemented in all aspects of the movement system.

visibility of the player models against the background needs to be great so that you don't need to use the stupid arrows pointing at player models trick everyone uses because they want to make graphics look "realistic". just go unrealistic, bright model skins against dark background can be seen fast and tracked without straining your eyes.

performance-wise it needs to be possible to hit stable 120fps(with a relatively good computer and fast internet connection), and the player model animations need to be just as smooth. again rtcw did this brilliantly and someone broke something when making et that resulted in relatively warpy player model animations when close to fistfighting distance, depending on players ping. (they are just as warpy in long distance fights but it's harder to spot).

rest of the stuff is just cosmetic really and doesn't matter much if it isn't obviously broken of course.
"'m happy if the movement system (the response to keyboard and mouse input) is as deep, responsive, smooth and fast as it is in rtcw."
People say this every time they play an unfamiliar game. What does it actually mean? SD need to know if you want them to fix it. Loose? Clunky?

"also, the strafejumping mechanism (mouse movement affects player movement) needs to be implemented in all aspects of the movement system."
Why does an old bug need to be added into a new game?

"performance-wise it needs to be possible to hit stable 120fps(with a relatively good computer and fast internet connection), and the player model animations need to be just as smooth. again rtcw did this brilliantly and someone broke something when making et that resulted in relatively warpy player model animations when close to fistfighting distance, depending on players ping. (they are just as warpy in long distance fights but it's harder to spot)."
Whats a good computer iyo? Keep in mind a good computer in America, Italy and Poland may be different.
When you say ET do you mean W:ET or ETQW? Because if its W:ET then its all in your imagination that close range changed unless you've been playign with people who mess with their rates etc.
Parent
with et i mean wolfentein: enemy territory (played etqw as much as i played wolfenstein so can't say anything about them)


""People say this every time they play an unfamiliar game. What does it actually mean? SD need to know if you want them to fix it. Loose? Clunky?"

that if you start to strafe left for example, you start moving left full speed instantly (minus the the unavoidable delay caused by hardware/drivers/rendering engine) without any "realistic" acceleration period. that you can "skateboard" around a cluttered environment smoothly without "hitting your toe" and loosing speed. with "loose" in et i mean for example strafejumping down the goldrush hill compared to how it would work in rtcw (very different). with "clunky" i mean for example how narrow rails and small objects make fast movement sometimes awkward in et unnecessarily.


"Why does an old bug need to be added into a new game?"

because without it there is no depth/style in the movement system. no way to break the "speed limit" -> everyone moves/looks exactly the same. after you learn the map geometry, there is nothing left to learn when it comes to movement.


"Whats a good computer iyo? Keep in mind a good computer in America, Italy and Poland may be different.
When you say ET do you mean W:ET or ETQW? Because if its W:ET then its all in your imagination that close range changed unless you've been playign with people who mess with their rates etc."

what is a good computer exactly doesn't really matter, as long as there exists a computer (one gpu and one cpu) that can run it max detail high res 120fps stable, i'm happy.

and yes equal pings, rtcw close range fights were much less warpy than they are in et, in my experience. i may be wrong but it doesn't matter, as long as they are not warpy in brink i'm happy.
Parent
Brink is supposed to be about fluid movement so I'd hope they'd have fast acceleration at least on the faster player types.

"with "clunky" i mean for example how narrow rails and small objects make fast movement sometimes awkward in et unnecessarily."
The SMART button is supposed to automatically vault or move around stuff like that so I hope that wouldn't be a problem. I'd hope it also adds depth to the movement system such that strafe jumping wouldn't be missed.

I got a love/hate feeling about strafe jumping as I spent a lot of time on ET trickjumping maps and getting banned from pubs for exploit jumping, but strafe jumping kept me from picking up Q3 as I just couldn't get the hang of it. Noone should be kept from playing a game just because some people want a bug Carmack accidentally introduced that is older than some current players ;o

ETQW netcode in 6v6 was excellent imo, but the 30Hz animations disguised that.
Parent
That bug is what makes these games awesome. After playing quake engined games, anything else feels like shit.

And no one is kept from playing a game with our without strafe jumps.

There are many ET (and even Q3) pub players who have no idea how to strafe jump and that doesn't change anything for them, but for me and many others it's a key feature. It adds depth.

You couldn't get the hand of strafejumping in Q3? Well some people can't aim for shit. Should we add autoaim (SMART-aim) by this logic too?

Rocket jump was also a bug. What was once bug, now is a feature.
Parent
Its not true at all that you can play if you can't strafe jump. If you can't sj you're a bad player. Its like you move at 60% of a competent players speed.

Rocket jump is a good bug. Its easy to see other how other people do it, when they do it and is easy to learn by yourself. SJing is mysterious. How is a new player supposed to know the rhythmn of strafe/jump/draw part of a circle with mouse in time with jump height unless someone tells them how to?

If someone can't aim then they probably can't play FPS at all. I couldn't control sj speed and direction in Q3 so I played other games ;o
Parent
I couldn't strafejump as well back in 2000 when I got Q3. So What? I still enjoyed it. Then I learned it by myself, somehow.

You indeed can't play Q3 on decent level if you can't strafejump. But as I wrote, people still play these games even they don't have clue how to do something. Check some QL FFA public for example. But without it it would be another random shooter no one would give a fuck about.


Why should everything be simple? I don't want to play on xbox controller.
Parent
yea didn't play any quake before rtcw, so didn't know strafejumping even existed for a year or two or more and had tons of fun, eventually found out it was played competitively and watching demos started to wonder why some people keep wiggling their mouse while they're sprint jumping :). figured it out without any tutorials or help pretty fast, what works and what doesn't is just a matter of experimenting a little when the results are right there to see. now it's second nature and any movement system without it feels artificially limited :(
Parent
As far as I know you can do the SMART movements also "manually" and it's even faster/better than just simply smashing the SMART button.

For me the whole movement thingy is one part why RtCW and W:ET are special, allthough I'm not very good in it. :D
Parent
first time i see you at this page :D hi there
Parent
*wink*

yea, I don't post much here and only visit the site a few times a week
Parent
Well they're not putting in strafejumping and I'm almost certain of that, but they say that you can improve on movement by doing the jumps manually and not through SMART. So that'd have the same effect strafejumping had in ET.
Parent
I salute you sir,

Quote
“I think it speaks a lot to the background of this company that we announced we were doing dedicated servers long before it became cool,” laughs Richard Ham, creative director at the Kent-based studio. Brink is standing on the shoulders of the Enemy Territory franchise, which in turn was built on an unshakeable foundation of clanners, modders and online communities. Splash Damage are brilliant nerds: the door to their lunch room reads “Om Nom Nom”, the management types sit behind glass doors sheepishly adorned with the words “Grown Ups”


http://www.gamesradar.com/pc/brink/preview/brink-hands-on/a-2010020211255989073/g-20090529114136296046
Just another pc game that will probably fail :( as much as i dont want it to fail im not getting my hopes up. Havent had a fun game to play since COD4 although BC2 beta seems pretty cool. Good to see you interacting with the community though ;)
Personally i have stopped playing cod4 simply because its wayyy toooo predictable, same maps, same usual hiding pwn spots within map, same old this, same old that. I simply have moved on.
unsticky
Dear Rhando,

As a Middle-Eastern gamer I would like to ask you if this game will be high-ping-playable?
Not such a straight question I know, so Ill try to be more specific :)

Basicly I would like to know how many shots does it take to kill [head/body shots etc] ?
Will there be a limit on packets traffic?
Did you test high latency on the beta? if so how did it feel? :)

Regards, saykz.
Can't say I know anything about packet traffic limits. Will make a note to ask the coders. I do know we have run some tests emulating high latency, but we've been mostly focused on engine optimizations right now, so we haven't spent too much time on netcode stuff yet. Will be hitting that more in the coming months.

How many hits it takes to kill is tough to answer, because there's the 3 diff body types, and the diff types of weapons, and all teh diff attachments you can put on. But broadly, yeah, it takes 3 or 4 hits to take a guy down, less if the situation favours you (he's a skinny guy, you go for headshots), more if the situation doesn't (he's a big guy, you've got a sub, etc.)
Parent
I hope you die or get the frag not too fast (without headshots) in every scenario because that would IMO lead to too short and therefor less dynamic fire fights.

I still have faith. :)
Parent
Don't release a beta without good netcode this time around, please :)
Parent
I just saw december video which I did miss due to my lack of care about this project, and I noticed one thing.



Why did you ditch throwable dynamite or any other explosives, and replaced it by sticky explosives?

What I mean is, in RTCW and ET you could drop dyno anywhere you wanted and arm it, and when you did that on objective you had choice (area) where to drop it and arm.

Now all I see is "walk to the wall and hold X on your gamepad" bullshit.

Why?

It was one thing that really annoyed me in Quakewars and in Wolfenstein. I had so much fun when I started RTCW with this small feature.
True. This allowed the planting of dynamites into tactical positions where you could defend them more easily. (e.g. in supply one should plant on the left side of main for ez defend)

+1
Parent
It needs to be sticky because otherwise people will ask why they don't just throw the dynamite out the window!
Parent
If I remember correctly the answer was that it allows high quality animations.

I don't like it either, though. Btw, you could plant where you want in ETQW as well. The one button planting and arming was optional.
Parent
I thought they were experts of doing dynamic animation shit with the movement stuff and all.

Lol noobs can't code dyno plant animations X---D
Parent
it's not any one thing, really. yes, it does let us make the whole thing "look nicer" (and i know you would always sacrifice visual polish for classic gameplay, but we do have to compete with other games, and so we do have to make considerations for looking as slick as we can). plus it gives the level designers more control over the tactical experience of attacking and defending. And yes, it also makes the game a bit more 'newb friendly', because they have to have a clearer understanding of what's going on during play... if they get to where the objective is, and yes, the objective is actually there, instead of hidden in some crevice, they'll have an easier time contributing to the team. Again, I know you guys don't care about newbs, but basically, we don't want to go out of business, so we have to try to ensure the game has as wide an appeal as possible to as many players as possible.

so it was a compromise, one of many, in the interest of ensuring we've all got jobs a year after we ship :-) and that's the truth of it.
Parent
its 1000x more fun than holding X button on your controller for 10 seconds

when i played rtcw in 2001 for first time it was fun and easily understandable

newbs in ET did not have problem with that, yet I guess you have to deal with xbox crowd with whom such complex system (drop->arm) is indeed too complex and it will definitely sell more, lol

gaming in 2010 = shallow games that clone each other


brink = quakewars 2

sell->easy money on hyped product -> let it die in 6 months->make another gaming revolution
Parent
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFGJrqpuXn0

is the kind of stuff we're trying to avoid, while at the same time making the game more polished and competitive with the other 800 pound gorillas on the market (we're not giving away Brink for free, after all)

is that stuff clever and cool? yes. does it make the game more fun for 'regular' players? no. does it make 'regular players' quit playing? yes. does splash damage stay in business if we don't get 'regular players' invovled in our game? no.

is the basic logic :-)
Parent
dynamite works as a weapon also

but if someone planting dyno @ random places on youtube video is what you try to avoid, then indeed you succeed in that

you obviously never played ET, and if you would you would know that this is not a problem at all, only thing it adds is fun, especially for noobs and public (aka "regulars") players

of course it's more competitive and polished if you can do every thing only one way with one button, sure, basic logic

but ok, avoid it cause obviously throwable explosive is what would separate your product from other high grossing console fps that are out there
Parent
in ETQW u could as well place and arm charge in any place, but when near objective u could do it both ways - with place/arm procedure or with "use objective" procedure.
i totally agree that place+arm should be available.
because it is less dumb and because in this case it becomes a weapon as mentioned above.
Parent
Well, actually, like the guys above me have stated: When I was a publanoob, I found planting lottodynamites quite amusing, and oh my gosh it was lulzworthy if you got several enemies into it.

And nowadays when I mainly play matches, it's even more lulzworthy if you get dyno kills in matches :)

Besides, it wouldn't be too difficult to create 2 separate animations for the explosive in Brink - one where your guy plants it on the ground and one where he plants it on a wall. You couldn't plant them as dynamically as you could in ET (ie. that'd probably avoid some bug places, especially the ones that'd involve jumping constantly as in your vid), but you could still put them in many places. I'm sure many people would like that, even "casuals".

And don't worry too much if the animations aren't exactly seamless - no modern game has absolutely seamless animations, and the reason for that is simple: it makes gameplay static.
Parent
oh they're FAR from seamless :-)
Parent
You're talking about Brink's animations?
Well, in that case, a slight difference in how explosives work shouldn't bother anyone.

This isn't related at all, but I just made 4 dynamite frags in an ET match. Was fun. Too bad you can't do it in Brink ;(.
Parent
Those are all valid reasons to do it that way. But that doesn't mean I have to like it. People will have strong opinions about it so please don't take it personally. :-)
Parent
no prob. believe me, i wish we could make a game 'just for the art of it'. but rahdo gotta eat! :-)
Parent
Is there going to be a Linux version?
Thanks!
Seems to be a clear "no".
Parent
Who knows? I mean, probably not going to be in the first day, but maybe in several months (or a couple of years)?
Parent
id like so see what it would be like to have a lean free game xD
no more gay corner camping would be nice.
Again, would just like to say this poster on the left looks awesome. Would be great for the front coverart, probably better than the one I mentioned a few weeks ago :D

image: brink_poster02
yeah the one on the left looks great. Perhaps there should be smth of the ark in the lower left corner or smth. Just behind the logo so that there is at least some scenery in the back
Parent
+1 as for the cover art motif
-1 as for the arc in the lower left corner. I think is looks that awesome also due to the plain blue background.
Parent
Agree.

I just hope this isn't the final because it looks hideous.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bethesda-Brink-PC-DVD/dp/B00305HJGK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1266853637&sr=1-3

Is that the final cover art Rahdo?
Parent
when that one "leaked" (or well, sorta) together with one other cover rahdo said, to quote him

Quote by RahdoThat’s not really ‘official’ box art. The Bethesda marketing guys are experimenting with lot of different box art concepts. That’s one of about half a dozen that i’ve seen floating around so far.
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sorry if i ask a question that had answered but its intersting me and there are many post ;<.


q: is there any visual difference between the classes? so lets say i can aim the engineers? :)
we're experimenting with giving all the classes unique backpacks with really distinct profiles. jury's out on how well it works, but rest assured, it's very important that you know which enemy is the medic, engineer, solider and operative. so we'll find a way!
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QuoteThis item will be released on October 29, 2010.

Is this a certain release date already, or just Amazon throwing wild guesses into air?
wild guesses. there is no official release date as of yet. if you start searching other sites i bet you're gonna find some other unofficial release dates along with that one.
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Since part 4 CoD has an alternate gamemode called "Hardcore", for players who want more realism and less action/arcade. Without crosshairs, no radar, higher weapon damage etc. The upcoming BF:BC2 will feature a similar gamemode with the same name.

So how about a fast paced gamemode in Brink for RtCW/W:ET - players and others who prefer gunplay and movement to be more centered around dexterity and reaction instead of tactical advantages? Without iron sights, with shooting while sprinting, very little weapon spread, relatively low weapon damage (three headshots for a kill), faster movement etc. (strafe - jumping would be awesome too, but since it isn't in the game, it would probably be too much work to include for such a gamemode).

You could call it "Veteran" (to imply that it is meant for veterans of older and faster shooters such as RtCW/W:ET) or something, please fans of faster shooters with it, while tailoring the normal gamemode more to the taste of casual gamers.

CoD was successful with pleasing the mainstream crowd as well as fans of more realistic gameplay by offering two gamemodes, Brink could do the same. Trying to please too many people with one and the same thing might just lead to satisfiying very few players in the end.

And there are many people who still prefer faster gameplay ala RtCW/W:ET, who are not pro gamers or have ever been in any clan. Not to mention new players who might find it refreshing to play a faster shooter in this day and age of slow - paced spray and pray - shooters ala BF2. This game could fill a gap that Quake 4, ET:QW, UT3 and Wolfenstein weren't able to fill. All it needs is some directions for newbies, like headshots instead of spray and pray, strafing instead of duck and cover and so on.

Edit: Sry for the long post
Totally +1

And seeing that it's there for every casual to see in the server filters, console matchmaking etc, it means they will probably try it, eventually. And who knows, they might even like it.
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nice post (and i agree!) :)

i'd also like to see some kinda duel mode. where you play 2on2 or perhaps even 1on1. in something similar to dm (well, you get the point) on a smaller version of the original maps. would be awesome.
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Don't forget that hardcore mode in CoD4 requires less skill and is more for noobs than the normal mode.
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Yes, but most people don't know that and it isn't marketed that way, hence it is called Hardcore. Thats why a possible "real" Hardcore - mode for Brink shouldn't be called that way, it would lead to wrong expectations.

Many people also believe that the shooting in BF2/BF2142 is very demanding, while in fact it is very random due to the strange hitboxes, and therefore even more n00bish then CoD.

Thats how things are with popular shooters nowadays, skill - wise they seem to be more challenging to the inexperienced players then faster shooters like Quake, while in reality it is the other way around. But making such a shooter and calling it for what it really is, will not change that perception.

Offering two gamemodes and some clear hints, videos or even tutorials on how to play both off them on top of that (as it has already been suggested by other posters), has a higher chance of satisfying both n00bs/casuals/console - players (= most potential customers) and experienced players and even recruit new players for the faster gamemode.
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yup, this is exactly the kind of approach i want to take. just a matter of finding time in the schedule!!! (what's a worried smiley? :-0 i suppose?)
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With all the talk of making this game usable for the average pubnub for example the dynamite question, dropping the dynamite is a waste of fancy animation and makes it easier for new players to understand. Well firstly how is it a waste? imagine ET/RtCW for a second you had 2 separate animations. One for actually dropping the dynamite then another for using the pliers to actually arm it. Now wouldn't a good thing be to carry it on and just have a fancy animation of like joining fuses together?
The reason i bring it up is causing games are just getting easier and easier and i really don't think anybody wants that. Straight away i know what your answer is but what if you where to have a tutorial level when you first start the game (skippable) but it showed you the basics right up to advanced play like trickjumping? like what they have done with QuakeLive you have a few tutorial levels which teach you to rocket jump and trickjump.

All in all its about the company making a profit in the end but i just want you to see my 2 cents.
i agree with the quakelive style tutorials

i think with QL though they're appealing to the hardcore market from the start so these tutorials make up for that some way

also i like the whole match-making thing for public play, fails a bit sometimes but is normally spot on. But its good that you can bi-pass it too (unlike cod6)
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yup, i'm not allowed to talk yet about how we teach stuff like this, but we do have plans. and yeah, it's essential that player can search for specific servers and whatnot, no doubt (on PC at least)
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yeh that would be good :)

wonder if you could have a wiki type service/website where users can contribute back with their own tutorials...

might be alot of effort to get this in game but might be quite nice
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This kind of stuff is usually done by the fanbase, isn't it?
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OP makes great point about these tutorials.

Many rooms, you enter one, game asks you to change your class and points out some objective.

Planting for example.

You enter,it asks to switch to engineer, you do that, game says select explosives, drop them in area near barrier then use your pliers to active them. Then same with walls, gates, etc. And with defuse process.

Next room. Select medic. Select syringe. Heal fallen comrades whom are lined up in front of you.

Next room. Fieldop. Set arty, drop strike, etc.

QuakeLive and Half Life 1 are great examples of such tutorials.

But its great that you see that most console and PC players are imbeciles who could not perfom such operations without game doing it for them. Games without depth - > trashbin.
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I wish idiotism was limited to gamers - sadly, it isn't.
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Give us a betaaaaaaaaa
OpenGL ? Steam ?

Because Valve is releasing Steam and their games for Mac OS X thanks to the switch from DirectX to OpenGL, and I guess that Brink will be using Steam too?

OpenGL = win
- Steam support (lots of costumers)
- Mac OS X support (5% of users, increasing)
- And... Easy Linux support! (1% of users, increasing)

Everybody is happy.
fuck off with steam game feels even worse than PB, and VAC is not even that useful to see who got busted
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Fuck off.
I don't care about Steam, just want to support Linux.
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one question:
you doing all this (i mean asking us) in your freetime or is it a part of your job and you get paid for this?
:-)
all in my free time. i usually set aside 2 or 3 hours on the weekend to go through Crossfire, our own Splash Damage boards, and sometimes a few other sites, and try to answer questions about the game.

It's getting tougher and tougher to make the time though -- we're now on a 6 day crunch work week to get the game ready for ship...
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q: are there any System Requirements known allready?
cuz from videos it seems my pc will choke on main menu :(
still doing optimizations, so no word yet. However, the good news is that since we have to get it optimized to run well on consoles, those also help (hopefully) keep our min PC requirements not quite at the bleeding edge... :-)
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really looking forward to this game and will buy it.. but

- do most maps allow for shorter teamsize for competition play? like 5v5 or 3v3 without walking around and having the feeling the map size, objective, or classes arent balanced around that, 8v8 seems abit much for lan and clanwars.
- how much more damage will headshots do compared to body hits? and are there sniper rifles that will cause a headshot to be instant kill, like in rtcw with the mauser?
- please do implement the option to record demos
- will holding a certain weapon or other thing increase run/walkspeed like in cs with the knife?
- any mines or traps we can setup?
- can we use colors in our nicknames and chat?
- please make an option for competition play that will make all players of each body size to look the same, its obvious people are going for the most stealthy looks for each map, it would be a struggle to change your looks every map, for example if theres a snow map u dont want to be wearing black gear but white instead ^.^
- can we pickup weapons/gear from teammates or opponents that got fragged?
- do we have to gain xp or upgrades in some way even in clanwars, or will there be an option to disable this so all have equal options to select weapons and gear, thru the whole match?
- any goodies in certain maps we can pickup (mp) like in quake, ammo, armor or guns?
afaik XP doesn't have a direct impact within the game but outside of it (to unlock stuff)
with an SDK it shouldn't be giving a tough time editing it accordingly (everything unlocked/locked/limited)

since body size already influences your movementspeed i reckon the weapons are not.
Otherwise you'd probably end up using heavy sized in offence with a small pistol to have more energy but the same speed a small frame carrying a small machine gun :P

8 body hits 3-4 headshots - so i guess the relation between those are the same as in ET (x2)

they are aiming for maps being played in 5v5 afaik(dunno about 3v3)

at least they have been considering powerups imo, but no pickups

as far as i can remember they were aiming for no chat to anonymize the game - to prohibit several people joining one team and overrun the other team (apart from friends joining the server - they might have changed their opinion on that one though, or might have gotten that one wrong)

afaik there's not going to be a strong sniper rifle because of the overall lack of long distances
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Aren't they aiming for 8v8?

Also, to my understanding they've only said that voicechat defaults to private so you don't hear these 10 years old British kids whining into their mics.
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nah, pretty sure about it being 5v5 rather than 8v8 (already wouldn't consider 8v8 being played on small maps) :)

but yea, the low quality voicechat in the old CS(dunno if it has improved) was the pain in the ass with all those people breathing in their mic :P
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Quote- do most maps allow for shorter teamsize for competition play? like 5v5 or 3v3 without walking around and having the feeling the map size, objective, or classes arent balanced around that, 8v8 seems abit much for lan and clanwars.


yeah, we're pretty confident that all our maps will still play well 5v5. not sure about smaller than that, we haven't tried it much with smaller groups.

Quote- how much more damage will headshots do compared to body hits? and are there sniper rifles that will cause a headshot to be instant kill, like in rtcw with the mauser?


i think right now we have a 1.5 modifier for headshots (maybe 1.25, can't remember. we'll be tweaking more in the coming months, obviously). by default, no gun should be able to 1 shot kill a 'normal' body type, though small body types are in danger since they're weaker. however, player's default hitpoints can be increased, and weapon damage can be increased too, through character abilities and stuff, so generally there are no one hit kills, but in some extreme circumstances they can happen.

Quote- please do implement the option to record demos


we love this stuff to, plus we use it for our own internal testing too :-)

Quote- will holding a certain weapon or other thing increase run/walkspeed like in cs with the knife?


nope, right now you've got a consistent run and sprint speed regardless of what weapon you're carrying. instead, you've got different default speeds depending on if you're a large, average, or small guy?

Quote- any mines or traps we can setup?


there's no team pool, everyone has their own individual ones. by default, players can only put down one mine, though there are abilities that can change things. and of course, if you switch class away from engineer, your mine disappears.

Quote- can we use colors in our nicknames and chat?


yeah, those still work. same syntax as the previous games...

Quote- please make an option for competition play that will make all players of each body size to look the same, its obvious people are going for the most stealthy looks for each map, it would be a struggle to change your looks every map, for example if theres a snow map u dont want to be wearing black gear but white instead ^.^


yeah, that's on our wish list (it actually came up in the other brink thread on crossfire), but time is running out and not all our wishlist stuff will make it in. fingers crossed though. however, ensuring players are 100% able to tell the diff between friends and foes is hugely important, and we're constatnly working on improviing team recognition...

Quote- can we pickup weapons/gear from teammates or opponents that got fragged?


you can pick up the gun they were last using, though it's almost empty. and in doing this, you throw away your own, so it's not something you generally want to do unless you REALLY want that new gun, or you're out of ammo yourself.

Quote- do we have to gain xp or upgrades in some way even in clanwars, or will there be an option to disable this so all have equal options to select weapons and gear, thru the whole match?


that's a fair suggestion. we're still trying to work out the best solution for stuff like this, but right now, i'm not allowed to talk about clan/tourneys/etc. :-)

Quote- any goodies in certain maps we can pickup (mp) like in quake, ammo, armor or guns?


there is a very interesting feature along these lines, but we haven't revealed it yet. more soon...
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Can you shoot through walls? (like cod)
hopefully not, just f* annoying, doesn't contribute to any kind of fast gameplay imo, because everyone tries to hear the steps of others and track them down and emptying their clips into nowhere...:x

pretty much doubt that they have that in, since it also pretty much eliminates the concept of cover imo.
(like a container would withstand high calibre ammunition - which would be an utterly imbalanced advantage for heavies)
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nope, no bullet penetration
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sorry i haven't been visiting as often as i have in the past, guys. things have gotten mega busy at work. we're doing mandatory 6 day weeks now, with long hours, and when i eventually get home, i just want to spend what little time i have with my wife :)

I'll still try to pop in and update you on stuff and answer questions, but probably not once a week like i had in the past. the only reason i'm on today is because my voice cracked from working too hard while i was sick, so i was sent home early with strict orders: "no talking"
Are there gonna be killcams? If not, why?
Well.. I hope there won't be kill cams cause basically you will know where the opponent is
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i think will be till u gibbed like in et
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we talked about doing replay killcams (ala CoD) as kind of as part of our "standard match rules" because they're a really great way for new players to learn from their mistakes and become better opponents, and that it would be a server setting that players could turn off. but basically, doing it would have been required a lot of coding that we didn't have time in the schedule to support, so we dropped it anyway.

and we're not doing Battlefield style "here's the guy who killed you" stuff. we do, however, want to turn the camera to face in the direction of where the kill bullet came from, so you have a rough idea of where he is, but not an exact one. dunno if that will make it in either. it's all coming down to the wire! :-0
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sounds good if you can get it done and it doesn't interrupt spawn times
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As far as i remember there was a buzz couple of monthes ago, that we can send questions to Splash Damage developers and they will answer some of them...well....is that still somewhere in the plans? cause i sent my question via e-mail. And that was, let me asure u, a hell of a question, a question of extremely high importance!
:]
yeah, we've actually finished the community q&a (a lot of great questions in there, and we tried to answer them as best we could), but it hasn't shown up yet. i think it's waiting on approval from bethesda (we gave a lot of new info in the answers)
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Very nice!
I hope bethesda guys arent too lazy...
And i dont think they should realy be scared of letting too much info out...because well its not beta leak (*sad smiley*)
:]
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This is not related to the past stuff but I'm just posting this here so that you get a PM!

I heard Brink got delayed. Why?

Make it better now that you have more time.
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Yup, the delay is for more polish time. We could have made our Xmas date, but we wouldn't have had enough time to work on balancing weapons/abilities/maps/damage/etc. etc. as much as we would have liked.

Bethesda is being really cool about giving us a few extra months so we can really get all the kinks out. and we're really lucky to get the time. Sorry for delay but hopefully it'll be worth it! :)
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Rahdo, can u make a video of a real match (between most tuff player of the developers), but not with "here i press this awesome button, so a traktor falls down from the sky and we can has a new way to pass teh enemies!" and without any other comments, but a real short match with 3v3 or 4v4, mb not whole map, but at least 1 stage with 1 object completed.

on all videos with explanations i just cant get the feelling of the game and its pace.

thnx in advance!
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i agree, that would be great, a proper match played with mouse and keyboard, with a full range of players including skinny type (which wasn't shown at all this e3). consider the request heard, and hopefully in the next few months we'll be able to put something like this together.

no promises though, because I'm not in charge of marketing, but I can definitely pass the request along to the powers that be! :)
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Just filling your inbox:
You mentioned about the spread screenshots few months back, how about it? :PpPpppppPPP

Also good luck with your project, it looks playable judging by the E3 demo, although that was just the singleplayer. But I can imagine if you replace the dumb AI and the noob playing the game on a console with real pro players the movement gets alot faster and more fluid :PPP The hip-aim on one part looked quite inaccurate, though :/.
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hahah when i c this conversation, i got the image of agon sharing his fantasy ideas with his self xD
anyway is there a gameplay video available?
yes, there is.
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you sure? not a video that doesnt use the engine
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did u try youtube with words "brink gameplay"?
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Will there be a tool/plugin to customize your character's clothes ?

Let's say put a clan logo or sth on it the same way is in Trackmania for example where you can customize the paint of your ride?

(sorry if it's been posted b4 , haven't read ALL the previous comments :))
Rahdo, as im sure youve played Wolf:ET or at least seen its gameplay, how would you compare the brink's general gameplay speed(for PC id imagine its a bit faster on PC) in comparison to wolfenstein ? I think that this is one of the main things most people here are worried about, partially because of the recent gameplay videos.

Also, how well is the engine running the game so far based on smoothness? Every IDtech4 game so far has been really choppy and just doesnt have the smooth feeling of a Q3 engine-based game, or even a heavily modded q3 engine like you see in call of duty 4. hopefully you guys can change that with brink
I am not sure if this question has been asked before.

Will you able to jump in fight and shoot headshots while you are jumping like in ETQW?

Because i hope that wont be happening, since everyone in ETQW started jumping in fight, its just wrong. ET is good example of clean fights without those things like jumping. Also make sure prone has some kind of delay unlike ET had in the start. We dont want people to abuse prone.
yay!
i think u mean more spread during jump, Zenix?
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is there gonna be a presentation @ quakeconz?? yay???
It's not an ID game...
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either way there was one, because SD and ID both work for same big o'company!
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Posted by xeoxis on 22/01/2010

sticky for 8 month...
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